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Thread: Good Shamanism Resources?

  1. #21
    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heka View Post
    So all I gotta do is get wasted, and go to a club to get into an altered state? SWEET :P
    If only it was that simple. lol.

    Reaching an altered state of consciousness is easy. Going anywhere with it is the hard part.

    On a serious note, I'm not personally a fan of alcohol or entheogens for journey purposes... they're some of the quickest ways to an altered state, but controlling them and actually entering the Otherworlds is an entirely different kettle of fish. And people who use those then often have a hard time reaching altered states through other means... so it's a crutch that becomes an inhibiting practice rather than a useful one. Music and rhythm, including dance, is similar... thousands of people reach a trance state every day via music and dance... but riding that into the Otherworlds is a step that very few can manage. Innerworlds is easy. Otherworlds, not so much.

    That's why core-shamanism is usually talking about Innerworlds work (a term coined by an old friend of mine from the Blue Mountains, which I just love and so shall use forevermore)... all that 'listen to this drumming track and do this guided meditation and enter the Underworld to meet your shadow totem' is not Otherworld journeywork. If you can learn it in a weekend workshop or from reading one book and sitting down to one drumming session, it's not Otherworld journeywork. Hitting the Otherworlds is hard, and takes years of practice to get there. I remember when I first started journeywork (faring forth in NT terms) I thought that the non-core shamanists were elitist and snobby... until I realised that what was coming so easy was Innerworlds work, and that travelling from there into external Otherworlds was a very different thing... until I actually made it into the Otherworlds and felt the difference for myself.

    There are thousands of 'shamanists' and 'shamanic practitioners' who never make it out of the Innerworlds. Which is okay. Because Innerworlds work is very profound and is actually what most people are looking for. That's where you do all the personal growth and improvement stuff. That's where most 'soul fragments' are lost. The external Otherworlds are not about us... they're about the entities that live THERE. The unfortunate thing is that it's all called 'Otherworlds' by modern neo-pagan and core-shamanic communities. Which causes a great deal of confusion.

  2. #22
    PF God-Empress Juniper's Avatar
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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    A video I always like to share when I hear people are interested in learning about Shamanism is this one:
    “Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.”
    ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
    Sneak Attack
    Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

  3. #23
    Member Chris's Avatar
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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    If only it was that simple. lol.

    Reaching an altered state of consciousness is easy. Going anywhere with it is the hard part.

    On a serious note, I'm not personally a fan of alcohol or entheogens for journey purposes... they're some of the quickest ways to an altered state, but controlling them and actually entering the Otherworlds is an entirely different kettle of fish. And people who use those then often have a hard time reaching altered states through other means... so it's a crutch that becomes an inhibiting practice rather than a useful one. Music and rhythm, including dance, is similar... thousands of people reach a trance state every day via music and dance... but riding that into the Otherworlds is a step that very few can manage. Innerworlds is easy. Otherworlds, not so much.

    That's why core-shamanism is usually talking about Innerworlds work (a term coined by an old friend of mine from the Blue Mountains, which I just love and so shall use forevermore)... all that 'listen to this drumming track and do this guided meditation and enter the Underworld to meet your shadow totem' is not Otherworld journeywork. If you can learn it in a weekend workshop or from reading one book and sitting down to one drumming session, it's not Otherworld journeywork. Hitting the Otherworlds is hard, and takes years of practice to get there. I remember when I first started journeywork (faring forth in NT terms) I thought that the non-core shamanists were elitist and snobby... until I realised that what was coming so easy was Innerworlds work, and that travelling from there into external Otherworlds was a very different thing... until I actually made it into the Otherworlds and felt the difference for myself.

    There are thousands of 'shamanists' and 'shamanic practitioners' who never make it out of the Innerworlds. Which is okay. Because Innerworlds work is very profound and is actually what most people are looking for. That's where you do all the personal growth and improvement stuff. That's where most 'soul fragments' are lost. The external Otherworlds are not about us... they're about the entities that live THERE. The unfortunate thing is that it's all called 'Otherworlds' by modern neo-pagan and core-shamanic communities. Which causes a great deal of confusion.
    what a stunning post and I thank you for it...it;s a very hard thing to describe, its images and emotion, colours, spirits, tranquility and horror,

    but you say it beautifully


    for anyone interested..I have never taken drugs, do not and never have smoked, do not drink apart from an occqsional Jaegermeister and a drop of mead now and again, am vegetarian...and find bright lights and pounding music apt to bring on a migraine...and no spirit animal guide apart from a liking for owls

    so no hallucinogens or inducing agents involved...I find it is far better to sit by a flowing stream amongst trees and drift

    as Rae'ya says above it's not an inner journey (spiritual growth is good though) but an out of body type experience interacting with spirits, human...non human...gods..and the cosmos itself..

  4. #24
    Sr. Member Ouranos Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Quote Originally Posted by Auseklis View Post
    I have found some interesting information on Shamanic practices in the most unlikely places such as small personal blogs and on Usenet etc, particularly when it comes to those who are living, for long periods of time, in a community who live the Shamanic way. The bloggers and Usenet users often know which books and resources are good and from experience they know who are the fluffy and $$$ driven authors from those who want to share the knowledge. Be aware that there is a 'trend' to holiday in remote villages and take as much ayahuasca as humanly possible then come back and claim you reached some form of enlightenment and have become and expert on everything from N-Dimethyltryptamine to Doreen Virtue's past lives.

    As far as resources, you've already got most of those I'd offer (and some other great stuff I'm now dying to check out). Thanks to all of you who shared resources (or will share them). I can only think of one other written resource that's actually about shamanism - the reader Shamanism, compiled by Shirley Nicholson. It presents a number of articles from different writers and is, as with any written resource, a great place to start or touch base - but not quite where you'll end up.


    I would also recommend works that don't seem, at first, to be about shamanism. Works like Whorf's Language, Thought, and Reality or Gorgias' argument [Nothing exists…], H.D.'s poetry or excerpts of Finnegan's Wake, Blake's The Marriage of Heaven and Hell or fairy tales umpteenth-times removed from the original source but still valuable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    Pretty much with MonSno on this one.


    It depends largely on whether you want core shamanism (which has a gazillion resources but which I have issues with), traditional/aboriginal shamanism (which as MonSno pointed out, is entirely dependent on cultural context and can't really be taught from a book or webpage), neo-shamanism (of which there are several respectful paths which can be weeded out of the core shamanism lot) or simply wanting to add some shamanist techniques (which is actually much harder than it sounds).


    Shamanism is a set of skills and techniques, but there are respectful and non respectful ways to do it. It's easy to end up appropriating practices, taking them out of context and applying them in non-respectful ways. There is also the issue of what it takes to be a 'shaman' versus a 'shamanist' and the appropriation of terms.


    I recommend starting with the academic side and moving from there. Academia is... a bit biased when it comes to shamanism, because for the most part is is anthropologists who are observing communities with traditional shamanic practices from the outside. Often the observers don't have any spiritual foundation themselves, and so don't truly understand some of the practices and may have attitudes that are not conducive to an accurate passing on of information. On the other hand, modern core shamanists have stripped the techniques of all cultural context, watered them down, sanitised them and created something that is more Innerworlds work than Otherworlds or spirit work. And then you have the 'neo-shamans' who are constructing modern shamanic practices but who may fall on either side of the 'appropriation' fence, or who claim the title of shaman when they don't technically qualify for it, or who claim that their brand of shamanism is an ancient tradition when patently it is not. Neo-shamanism is tricky... I've seen many who are respectful and ethical in their practice, and many who aren't... many who are unfairly elitist and cliquey and then many who are far too blase and superficial about it. The problem is that you can't really tell the difference until you have been exposed to the whole spectrum of traditional through to core shamanism, and that really only comes from reading copious resources, talking to practitioners and being exposed to the shamanic community at large.


    So... resources...


    Academia:


    Mircea Eliade's "Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstasy" is perhaps the seminal work on shamanism. Very academic, so fair warning.


    Piers Vitebsky has several books... I have one called "Shamanism" which is a good general overview, but he has several others, some of which are difficult to find. The other one that I have heard good things about but haven't actually read is called "The Shaman".


    Roger Walsh's "The World of Shamanism: New Views of an Ancient Tradition" is a lot more accessible in terms of ease of reading, and looks at the psychology of shamanism. It's a bit more general and not quite so keyed into specific tribal traditions, but it's very good.


    Core Shamanism:


    Micheal Harner is, of course, the founding father of Core Shamanism, though many, many others have jumped on board. Tom Cowan and Christopher Penczac fall into this category, as does DJ Conway (though most of her books claim to be of a particular cultural context, which is debatable... personally I feel that she writes about core shamanism dressed up with specific cultural references). Diana Paxson is an interesting mix... if you read her works such as 'Tranceportation' then it's very core (although very good as a book on trancework)... but if you read her oracular seidhr works or her articles for Hrafnar then it's not so much.


    I don't personally like the way that most core shamanist authors claim 'shaman' or 'shamanism' and yet are not actually working in external Otherworlds or with external spirits and entities, but that's a personal thing. It's an opinion that is shared by a large chunk of the neo-shamanic community, though. Core shamanism itself is valid as an Innerworlds practice, and serves very well to allow most folk to incorporate shamanic techniques without actually traipsing around bothering spirits in their own homes... it would just be nice if it was a bit more honest about that.


    Plastic Shamanism:


    You don't want to do this but I include it as a warning. Pretty much anyone who does weekend workshops that promise to make you a shaman, and a great many of the published authors who claim to practice Native American shamanism fit in here. I wont name names.


    Neo-Shamanists (of varying qualities):


    Lupa writes about her own brand of neo-shamanism: therioshamanism. Mostly at her Therioshamanism blog, but also in amongst her totemism and skinworking books ("Fang and Fur, Blood and Bone", "DIY Totemism", "Skin Spirits" and "New Paths to Animal Totems"). I do very much like her approach to animal spirits and guides, which is inherently shamanic, and her careful handling of appropriation issues. She doesn't do much work in the Otherworlds, but works closely with animal spirits in this world. She also fluctuates between using female pronouns and gender neutral pronouns to refer to herself, so don't get confused.


    Ravenari has a website and practice which has changed over the years. She used to claim to practice a traditional Russion form of shamanism taught to her by her family, but that's debatable. Her Wildspeak context is much more consistent and accessible. She isn't as active online as she used to be, and closed down her forum, but has some useful articles up on the website.


    James Endredy has a book called "Ecoshamanism", which is his own neo-shamanic brand. Again, not much work in the Otherworlds but extensive work with the spirits here, particularly land spirits and the like. He comes from an interesting perspective, and has some insightful practices and attitudes.


    Nan Moss and David Corbin have written a book called "Weather Shamanism", and I believe have a website. It's shamanism at it's loosest... they do work extensively with weather spirits, but other than that are fairly core in their approach to shamanic techniques. I didn't particularly like the book and I have some personal disagreements with some of their attitudes, but others may find it useful.


    Raven Kaldera's Northern Tradition Shamanism series attempts to reconstruct a possible pre-Indo European circumpolar shamanic practices. It's spirit taught, and quite different to Seidhr or anything else practiced by more traditional Heathens and reconstructionists. There are five books so far... " Jotunbok ", "Pathwalkers Guide to the Nine Worlds", "Wyrdwalkers", "Wightridden" and "Northern Tradition Herbal". Also his website.


    Kaldera also has a book called "Neolithic Shamanism", written with Galina Krasskova, that has some very good tecniques and exercises for working with landspirits and the like in this world.


    Katie Gerrard ("Seidr, The Gate Is Open") and Jenny Blain ("Nine Worlds of Seidr-Magic") write about seidhr, which is not shamanism per se, but is the Norse oracular and trance practices that come rather close. Some people consider it to be the Heathen equivelant of shamanism, or as close as you can get. I personally count it as a related practice, but not as shamanism itself. Hrafnar also practice oracular seidhr, and have links on their website.


    Sandra Ingerman has several books, particularly "Soul Retrieval", that are very good but are a bit like Paxson's "Tranceportation". There is some inconsistencies which make it easy to mistake as core shamanism, though I suspect that's not wholly accurate and may be an attempt to make the techniques more accessible.


    Most of my other links I lost when my laptop was stolen, and most of the forums that were active years ago have been closed down (which was a shame). But that's a good start lol.

    As with the others, thanks for the links. A fantastic list!


    I can only speak for myself and what I believe I've perceived in a few others, but I feel symbols are the engine of otherworld contact. I communicate with my guides there in raw symbology, and I had no idea what I was experiencing until I understood it in those terms. Every symbol-set I learn is another way to see; for me, shamanism is closely related to the arts and began with stories (whether they were told in prose, musical notes, perceived movement, whatever). I would consider myself a voracious and generally unapologetic appropriator (although I never share practices that are identified to me as secret). At the same time, I'm interested in knowing what you feel constitutes disrespectful appropriation. There may be aspects of the subject I hadn't considered.


    Quote Originally Posted by CR.Archer View Post
    Everyone else has already said what I know on the subject, but beginning apprentices should NOT ever use any psychoactive anything from what one mentor I talked to told me. You have to first learn to do it with your mind and that's it. I can do it listening to music most all the time where I feel like I "visit" the spirit woraayahuascald, and then get the answers I need for this world. Sometimes for me sometimes it's an answer for someone else, but I've also had experiences where I got a malevolent spirit attach to me and I had to pull myself away it took several weeks of meditation before I found my center again.
    I've been practicing for awhile, but mostly on my own with no steady mentor to apprentice under like a young Shaman is suppose to. I still can find myself getting lost when meditating too deeply, so that’s one piece of advice I would strongly suggest is to any person is get a good center with yourself before fully diving into it.

    You certainly offer a valid perspective regarding drug use, and it's one I know is shared by several people for whom I've got a lot of respect. At the same time, I feel that certain natural drugs can be useful to the process of establishing and controlling (to the extent that one can control) altered states of consciousness. In particular, I've known people who felt that psilocybin, peyote, ayahuasca, and, in one case, opium were helpful to their practices of otherworld communication, temporal magic, and bilocation (as well as a few other skills). Drug use does seem to have been part of a great many ancient shamanic practices, and it can be a valid part of practice today - so long as the drug is a learning tool and not a toy or a master.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dez View Post
    Thanks so much folks! I'll pass this along


    TBH, this is exactly why, while I find the idea of Shamanism fascinating, it's been more then a little daunting to look into myself. I think this will be very helpful for my friend. Thank you again!

    While certain shamanic practices are not to be trifled with, I also fail to see what's so terribly daunting about beginning to work with shamanism. I think a lot of the practices have been romanticized to the point that an otherworld journey seems like something only a well-trained elite astral projector level 26 should attempt when, in fact, most people (I feel) enter the otherworld in their dreams every night. Our minds and spirits call us to begin the journey and provide the means of passage; it's a perfectly natural act. Sorry if I seem irascible about that one, but I went through a period when I was younger when I really needed to be journeying but was intimidated by the type of person who thinks a publishing contract and a grand-sounding title are proof of astral prowess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dez View Post
    Can anyone throw some my way, please?


    I have a FB friend who is open-minded LDS and looking for some, any tradition. She's getting frustrated because most of what she finds is very New Age, and gathers from a lot of sources without really explaining what they're doing. Are there Shamanism resources on the reconstructionist side of things?

    On the one hand, I think New Age movements were a necessary part of the breakdown of linear society into the budding of a truly syncretic culture. On the other hand, blech! These texts are so often watered-down versions of a few tidbits of ancient culture intended to a) sell, sell, sell and (a very distant) b) maybe teach somebody that ancient stuff is cool or somethin'.

    [CONTINUED IN NEXT POST]
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  5. #25
    Sr. Member Ouranos Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Sorry - it said the last response was too long to fit in one post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    can I offer
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Neil Price...The Viking Way: Religion and War in the Later Iron Age of Scandinavia
    Neil Price...(ed) the archaeology of shamanism

    Thanks. Especially the latter one. I spent so long not understanding the importance of geocosmology, denying my animistic tendencies and assuming the landscape was just boring old atoms and stuff (probably until I read some of Keith Basso's articles about the Western Apache, come to think of it - so you might want to add that to the resources list).


    Quote Originally Posted by shebani View Post
    This is very interesting, I do this and have done this for a very long time, you are the first I've ever heard directly say they do this with music. I would love to hear any more you have to say on the matter.

    Music is a wonderful way to connect to those in the otherworld. I've created an area of my astral temple that's chiefly for the sharing of music. It's been very well received by some of those who "live" nearby, and it's even inspired me with a couple of ideas for compositions. I highly recommend it.


    I also generally find, in terms of meditative music, that you want something nearly or entirely devoid of melody, something that provides a sonic landscape rather than a tonal story. To that end, I recommend (only a handful of possibilities) David Darling, Constance Demby, Deuter, Phillip Glass, Kitaro, Ottmar Liebert, R. Carlos Nakai, Nightnoise, Patrick O'Hearn, Shadowfax, Steve Roach, and Eric Wollo.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    It's actually incredibly common to enter an altered state of consciousness via listening to music. Drumming is just one variation of this, and is incredibly traditional to many cultures who practice some form of shamanism. Trance music is also quite good for this, and I'd be willing to bet that almost every single person who has ever gone clubbing or to a rave has 'tranced out' or entered an altered state of consciousness while there.

    Gotta say, despite the list above, that the best shaman's drum, for me, is the sound of cicadas and/or crickets.


    Finally… Rae'ya (I'm having some sort of multiquote error, so you didn't get quoted):


    I really respect what you have to say - here and generally. You're one of the users whose opinions I hold in high regard, but I've got to disagree about your perspective on Inner- versus Otherworlds.


    I think what you've described is, by far, the most common paradigm. At the same time, I think it's important to recognize that, by our very natures, we stand on the threshold. And, rare though it might be, some start in the (well, an) outerworld. And quite a few, like me, start on the threshold (often due to sheet stubbornness and lack of propriety) and must navigate back and forth or deal with events that occur in both "locations" simultaneously. I would suggest that the experience of the otherworld is not so hierarchical as to be experienced in the same manner or order from one person to another.


    That's all for what it's worth. I'm generally about 60% bs, but I'm told the rest is sometimes interesting. If you thought I was being snarky at any point, just imagine Bob Ross reading that section; that should fix the problem.
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  6. #26
    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouranos Ouroboros View Post
    I would consider myself a voracious and generally unapologetic appropriator (although I never share practices that are identified to me as secret). At the same time, I'm interested in knowing what you feel constitutes disrespectful appropriation. There may be aspects of the subject I hadn't considered.
    Appropriation is incredibly common in neo-paganism, and whether it's respectful or not is largely dependent on the perspective of the observer and whether or not the culture being appropriated from still exists or not. For example, most people don't care if you appropriate from a long-dead culture such as the ancient Hellenics or Norse. But appropriate from certain indigenous cultures and that's a different story.

    Personally, I think that anything that takes a practice out of it's original cultural context and mixes and matches it with something else but still calls it a traditional practice, is disrespectful appropriation. For example... drumming. Drumming is exceedingly common in both indigenous and contemporary shamanic cultures (as well as in non-shamanic cultures). So if I pick up a drum (as I do) and use it to reach an altered state of consciousness (as I do), that is not inherently appropriative. But if I paint some Saami symbols on it and call myself a naoide, then that's disrespectful cultural appropriation, because I'm quite patently NOT a Saami naoide. If I paint Saami symbols on it and call my drum a Saami drum, that's disrespectful cultural appropriation. If I say that I practice Saami shamanism, that is disrespectful cultural appropriation. However, if I use some Saami symbols in my own design, understand what they actually mean, study the Saami naoide and their practices, use that as inspiration for my own practice, and never claim the term Saami or naoide, then that's appropriative but not necessarily disrespectfully so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouranos Ouroboros View Post
    While certain shamanic practices are not to be trifled with, I also fail to see what's so terribly daunting about beginning to work with shamanism. I think a lot of the practices have been romanticized to the point that an otherworld journey seems like something only a well-trained elite astral projector level 26 should attempt when, in fact, most people (I feel) enter the otherworld in their dreams every night. Our minds and spirits call us to begin the journey and provide the means of passage; it's a perfectly natural act. Sorry if I seem irascible about that one, but I went through a period when I was younger when I really needed to be journeying but was intimidated by the type of person who thinks a publishing contract and a grand-sounding title are proof of astral prowess.
    Ten years ago, I would have agreed with this paragraph. However, years of study and practice has taught me that you've got it a bit backwards. All the anthropological and academic study on shamanic cultures show us that journeying into the external Otherworlds was NOT readily accessible NOR perfectly natural. Michael Harner is the one who 'romanticized' shamanic practices into core-shamanism and made it accessible to everyone who could read a book and listen to a drumming track.

    The Dreamworlds is not the same as the external Otherworlds. Nor is the Astral Plane. Nor is the 'Non-ordinary Reality' or core-shamanism. Nor are the Innerworlds. Normally, I'm very, very careful to qualify everything I say with 'in my experience', or 'I think', or some such disclaimer. But in this particular case I have enough confidence in the tonne of academic work and anthropological study that supports my statement. Actual shamans... real shamans who practice within their cultural traditions and serve on behalf of their community and their spirits... work within external Otherworlds, or spirit realms. In most of these cultures, the shaman is the ONLY person who can access the spirit worlds, or is the only person who can facilitate another to access them.

    The confusion lays in the use of the term 'Otherworlds'. On one hand, the term is a relatively recent term and does not come from the traditional and indigenous cultures from which we have learned shamanic techniques. In that sense it's not innacurate to say that anyone can access the Otherworlds... as 'Otherworlds' could just mean any world or plane of existence other than this one.

    BUT... just because you could legitimately call the Dreamworlds, Astral Plane or Innerworlds an 'other-world' does not mean that it is the same as the external spirit realms that the shamans of traditional and indigneous cultures are accessing. And unfortunately that is exactly what core-shamanism has encouraged in neo-pagans. These worlds are all getting lumped into the one term, and we end up with confusion and innacuracies where people think that the Dreamworlds or the Astral Plane is the same as the external Otherworlds (where non-human spirits live). Which then leads to the misconception that anyone can access the external Otherworlds and traipse around collecting non-human spirit helpers in order to retrieve their lost soul parts.

    It's absolutely true that anyone can access the Innerworlds and traipse around collecting non-human spirit helpers etc etc... and that anyone can visit the Dreamworlds when they sleep. But the external Otherworlds? That's a different story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouranos Ouroboros View Post
    On the one hand, I think New Age movements were a necessary part of the breakdown of linear society into the budding of a truly syncretic culture.
    That's assuming that we want a syncretic culture. Personally, I think that's a horrific idea and I can think of nothing worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouranos Ouroboros View Post
    Finally… Rae'ya (I'm having some sort of multiquote error, so you didn't get quoted):

    I really respect what you have to say - here and generally. You're one of the users whose opinions I hold in high regard, but I've got to disagree about your perspective on Inner- versus Otherworlds.

    I think what you've described is, by far, the most common paradigm. At the same time, I think it's important to recognize that, by our very natures, we stand on the threshold. And, rare though it might be, some start in the (well, an) outerworld. And quite a few, like me, start on the threshold (often due to sheet stubbornness and lack of propriety) and must navigate back and forth or deal with events that occur in both "locations" simultaneously. I would suggest that the experience of the otherworld is not so hierarchical as to be experienced in the same manner or order from one person to another.
    I think I've addressed this for the most part in my previous replies, but I'll reiterate that for most traditional shamans and neo-shamanists who practice within a cultural context, the external Otherworlds are a fixed point of existence outside of our own. They are not an inner landscape, or a shared subconscious landscape. They are a collection of worlds outside of our own, which are inhabited by spirits and entities that don't physically exist here.

    The vast majority of people who practice neo-shamanic techniques for personal growth are not accessing the external Otherworlds. A great many of them don't even believe that the external Otherworlds exist. And that's okay. Because there's actually very little personal growth that can happen in the external Otherworlds, aside from being able to visit deities and teachers within their own homes. The Innerworlds, on the other hand, are quite easy to access and very useful for personal growth. As I have said several times before, the confusion is that most people call the Innerworlds the 'Otherworlds'... and I think that it is important to delineate the two. I've seen other neo-shamanists refer to the Innerworlds as 'the personal Disney-ride' or similar. I prefer my friend's term, because I feel it's more descriptive and more respectful of the work that can, and should, be done there.

  7. #27
    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rae'ya View Post
    .. Ten years ago, I would have agreed with this paragraph. However, years of study and practice has taught me that you've got it a bit backwards. All the anthropological and academic study on shamanic cultures show us that journeying into the external Otherworlds was NOT readily accessible NOR perfectly natural. Michael Harner is the one who 'romanticized' shamanic practices into core-shamanism and made it accessible to everyone who could read a book and listen to a drumming track. ..
    Very much agree with all you've said in this particular response and in general with what I normally see you post in regards to shamanic practices. Tried to "Rep" you but don't know if it will post as it would not let me fill in anything.

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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    Very much agree with all you've said in this particular response and in general with what I normally see you post in regards to shamanic practices. Tried to "Rep" you but don't know if it will post as it would not let me fill in anything.
    It's not registering on her profile. Is a specific error message popping up?
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  9. #29
    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaskedOne View Post
    It's not registering on her profile. Is a specific error message popping up?
    Now it comes up with a shaded box that says I have to give rep to another before I can rep her again. Yet when the box opened I had no options at all nor an error code. I even waited a bit to see if I might have a lag in my response time after clicking the rep star. Yet when I drag the cursor across the rep star on your post the box automatically comes up with all the options available. Not sure what is going on with it though I can't rule out that its on my end.

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    Re: Good Shamanism Resources?

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    Now it comes up with a shaded box that says I have to give rep to another before I can rep her again. Yet when the box opened I had no options at all nor an error code. I even waited a bit to see if I might have a lag in my response time after clicking the rep star. Yet when I drag the cursor across the rep star on your post the box automatically comes up with all the options available. Not sure what is going on with it though I can't rule out that its on my end.
    You cannot rep Rae'ya again until you rep at least one more person. (Has to be two people before you can rep the same person again, regardless of how long or short ago it was.) It's a software thing and I don't particularly agree with the fact that there is no "time limit" to that rule. I'll do some digging to see if this is moddable. But until then, this'll have to do.

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