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Are there repercussions for suicide?

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    Are there repercussions for suicide?

    I understand that many traditions/pantheons/beliefs/paths/et al that uphold the creed (as it were) of harming no one, which includes one's self. And who can argue that as being anything but a very good creed to have?

    I have two questions in regards to suicide and pagan beliefs:
    1. Is there any definite or specified taboos in pagan beliefs against suicide (such as there is in Christianity)?
    2. What is everyone's take on what happens to you if you do commit suicide?

    Other than the obviously good idea that you should not harm yourself, I have found no references in any of the traditions that I have studied, that mention anything about taking your own life. Neither pro or con. To be honest, I haven't found anything that specifically states that you should not harm yourself, or anyone else. Aside from common sense, I find no supportive "evidence" (for lack of a better word) to support not harming, or killing yourself.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT contending it, by no means. I'm simply looking for anything that would support it. I'm looking for some written account, or some ancient bardic tail, or any such basis. I'm doing this because it is one of those useless things that really doesn't matter in my path, but it does persist as a question.

    Secondly, if Christians believe that you go to hell for committing suicide, I would like to see what other beliefs think happens to you. Do you feel that a person, or should I say spirit at that point, is punished in some way? Is it a lesson that needed be learned? Does the Goddess or God realize that maybe the lesson in patience was a little too rough? Whatever.

    I'm interested in what everyone thinks about what happens when someone takes their own life.

    And this is different from the scenario where you give your life to save another, that's a different thing all together.

    Thanks in advance.

    #2
    Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

    I don't believe in any kind of justice after death. In fact, I firmly believe that justice is nothing more than a human concept of moral retribution. Of course that's just my opinion and beliefs.

    Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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      #3
      Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

      I don't know about pagan beliefs, but in the Torag (Judaism), the one who commited suicide is considered to be a murdere also, because he killed himself.
      "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



      Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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        #4
        Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

        The problem here, at least for me, is the phrase 'pagan beliefs'. Because we pagans are such a diverse lot it is impossible to say anything in general about our beliefs. You have to be more specific if you want an answer.

        So I am not going to answer question 1, since imo it cannot be answered in general terms. I'll have a go at question 2 though.

        My own personal conviction lies close to Sean's, though with a an addendum. What happens to you after death - whether you die by your own hand, someone else's, by accident or disease or whatever - very much have to do with how you feel about yourself and I suppose your means of death. If you are at peace with yourself then you will rest (what happens more specifically I am not sure of and will jump that obstacle when I get there. I have my own personal theories, but no way of verifying them.). If you are not, then you may very well end up one of the restless dead, one of those who are tied to this world until they achieve peace with themselves. Some seem to never do and seemappears to... fade for a lack of a better word, with time.

        So it doesn't matter whether or not you kill yourself, if you are at peace with that descision you will find peace.
        Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

        An apostrophe is the difference between a business that knows its shit, and a business that knows it's shit.

        "Why is every object we don't understand always called a thing?" (McCoy. Star Trek: The Moive Picture)

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          #5
          Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

          It'll depend upon the tradition. As far as I know, in Kemeticism, suicide is seen with an ambivalent view at best. Suicides were sometimes permitted for high-ranking individuals when they were to be executed. Personally, I believe that those who commit suicide will be called by the Netjeru to explain themselves, but the Netjeru are not without mercy and I highly doubt that suicide will lead to becoming Ammut food without other wrongdoings to tip the balance.
          Blog: http://thestarsafire.tumblr.com

          Kuchi wa wazawai no moto (the mouth is the origin of disasters)

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            #6
            Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

            I personally do not think there is a negative to suicide. Consider that under Bushido Seppuku, ritual suicide, is an honorable death for one who has failed yet seeks to retain their honor and prestige. Not only for the one who is taking their life but also for the person who aides them to ensure they do not suffer or would stop due to fear.

            One should also consider that to many civilizations suicide could also be atoned for by ones descendants. In Hellenic and Roman society there were provisions for stopping a restless dead ancestor from being summoned from the grave as a shade or atoning for a failure of receive certain purification and rites in life even after death.
            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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              #7
              Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

              From my own experiences as a Alexandrian Wiccan (former - now I'm just a generic eclectic hard-polytheist Pagan), there wasn't much emphasis placed on the afterlife at all. You die however you die, you go to the Summerlands to wait for your next incarnation to come along eventually. There's always that vague Western sense of 'karma' if you harm another person in your actions - so if your suicide left very young children unattended or took someone else out with you, there'd be karmic repercussions to face.

              As someone who has contemplated and attempted suicide, I only hear from other people about how selfish it is, how much pain is inflicted on people around you, about how mean it is to basically say, "Hey, I'd rather be dead than put up with my friends and relatives and coworkers and random acquaintances for X more years" (apparently committing suicide is the ultimate act of bullying to some people)... or how it's a waste of potential or a waste of 'the gift of life'. I've never gotten any guidance or remonstrations about what suicide does to the soul or how it's going to ruin any chances of a decent reincarnation or anything like that.
              The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                #8
                Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

                Well, I am agnostic on the issue of an afterlife, but I think that if there is one, it is not one of punishment vs. reward. Kinda like what Sean was talking about, I feel like the idea of reprimanding is a very human one. If there is some metaphysical ether that we all return to, it is beyond anything we know on this earthly plane.

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                  #9
                  Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

                  I don't think any kind of death is good except natural death. I think one of the most terrible suicides was Hitler's (I read a lot about War World II). Because he shot himself instead of facing what he did. I know some people have reasons for suicides, but it's not a good route in any way.
                  Anubisa

                  Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

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                    #10
                    Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

                    I truly think it depends on what state the human being was in when comitting suicide. In some (well actually in a lot of cases) the person comitting suicide is rather the victim, instead of the murderer. There are such severe cases of mental illnesses, naming depression as only one of them. These chemical imbalances and actual physicial and mental problems IMO make the person unaccountable for his/her actions. This person is not in the correct state of mind to be making sane decissions. So lets say there is a God/Goddess/whatever everyone believes in...and lets say for a moment there is a "trial" and a "reward" and "punishment" etc... Would a mercyful and loving God/Goddess/etc ever hold this person responsible for such an act?? They did not ask to feel this way...this helpless...they did not ask to be mentally ill, or have physical health issues that cause these kinds of behaviours. And on top of holding them responsible, would they punish them?! This person has clearly suffered enough as it is. In these cases I do not think suicide would be punished. I think these people would finally be granted the peace they could not find in life.

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                      #11
                      Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

                      Wow! Fantastic!

                      I never expected so many replies. Thanks to every one. Lots and lots of different views.

                      MoonRaven, I was deleberately vague on the subject in order to allow anyone to fit their answer in. However, I can see where I should have said "... in your pagan beliefs ..." instead of "... in pagan beliefs ...". Sorry for that. I was interested in what you (and other individuals) thought.

                      Lillium, the way I see it, an understanding and merciful Deity would take into consideration why a person took their own life. Sadly, I know of one Deity that would not. It does not matter the reason, if you kill yourself, then you will suffer eternally.

                      persephone, Yes! I love it! I love the people who will tell someone that is in excruciating pain how selfish they are for wanting to die. The truth of the matter is that the person not suffering is quite selfish too. They would rather watch someone they care about suffer, in order to avoid the separation that death brings. In other words: "I want you to suffer so I don't have to". Yes, I know that anyone who kills themselves causes pain to those that cared about them. I don't deny that. But then there are those who simply cannot stand the pain, be it physical, emotional or mental, that this life gives them.

                      To all others, thank you for your insights. You have provided a wealth of information and so many different was to look at it. Proving that "pagan beliefs" are quite varied.

                      As I "un-learn" Christianity, I find myself learning about it. One thing that I have notices is that most of the doctrines of Christianity are based on pagan beliefs in some way. I asked this question because I have yet to come across anything that would have been the foundation, or inspiration, for the Christian doctrine on suicide. While I have gotten plenty of great viewpoints, I still am wondering where Christianity got the inspiration for the doctrine.

                      I must admit that since becoming pagan, the aspect of dying is much less frightening to me. Removing the threat of eternal damnation relieves quite a bit of worry about the afterlife. In fact, with the afterlife promising to be little more than a rest stop on one's overall path, I'm actually surprised that more people don't commit suicide. Compare staying here and suffering from (insert cause here), or move on to the next stage in my existence. The other side could become quite attractive to those in rather bad situations. So what keeps them here?

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                        #12
                        Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

                        As an atheist if you commit suicide, you die. If you live, you die.
                        We all just die. No matter what you do or believe. We die.
                        The end.
                        And yeah, I'm not being pithy. Its what I believe happens. You die. Then who knows?
                        Satan is my spirit animal

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                          #13
                          Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

                          None of the paths I have followed have had a specific "event" for those who commit suicide, well except for those based on Abrahamic faiths/magic.
                          But then for a few paths the concept of an afterlife was not really relevant.
                          People live, people die.

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                            #14
                            Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

                            I don't believe my God would punish me for committing suicide. He'd probably disapprove, though, after what we've been through; I guess I'll tell the whole story to make it clearer:

                            I suffered of depression last winter. I remember feeling completely alone. My relationship, which had gone through crazy highs and lows was over. I was heartbroken and betrayed and I couldn't talk to anyone about my pain; I'm not very expressive about my feelings. And there was a lot going on that is best left unsaid. My band was at a standstill and I had spent 6 months unemployed, in constant stress of finding a job. It was the most miserable period of my life.
                            I reached thew point where I had no hope, no will. Every day I feared waking up, and cried myself to sleep regularly.

                            One night, I was driving home (half-drunk). It was the middle of the night. I had never felt so lonely in my life; there was a hollow feeling in my chest. About one kilometer further, there is a sharp bend in the road and on the outer side, there is a huge majestic oak tree. I don't know what came into me, but I sped up. I could see the outline of the tree against the night sky, coming closer. I closed my eyes.

                            In that second, there was someone with me in the car. I knew who He was. I could feel Him, sitting beside me, His one eye looking at me. In my mind's eye, I saw Him put a hand on my shoulder. It felt like a thousand words of comfort passed without a sound, from Him, to me. There was no anger, no question of why I was doing this. Only friendship, and a feeling of warmth and hope that spread from where His hand lay on my shoulder.

                            I opened my eyes just in time to take the bend. The whole thing lasted one, maybe two seconds. I came out of my depression, although it pops back in times of stress. But whenever I find myself harboring suicidal thoughts, I think of Him. He has never shown anger at this, more a kind of "pull yourself together, young man", always friendly, but also reminding me that the time has not come. I find myself willing to live, just because of that, just because He once said "your time is not yet".


                            EDIT: maybe a bit off topic, but I felt like sharing this.
                            "The idea is to be whispering, and not to gain the attention from the flock, but to get attention from the individuals. That's why I relate it to whispering. It's not something you can put on a big scale; you can't get sheep to attend to it. You need to have people who can stand for themselves. It is important to have a lot of space for yourself to be able to grow strong branches, which can stand in the most extreme surroundings."

                            Gaahl

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                              #15
                              Re: Are there repercussions for suicide?

                              I like this quote:

                              "Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain."

                              It horrifies me that anyone/any religion would seek to punish someone for being unable to cope.

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