Have you ever talked to a demon?

[creepyoak]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

Guys, thank all of you for your answers, it's an interesting discussion going on!


I have another question,

if we consider two meanings of the word "demon" - the Christian sense = demon as a malicious spirit, and the Hellenic sense = demon is a spirit in general (correct me if I'm wrong),

then how come this word changed its original sense??

[anubisa]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

No. I've never talked to a demon because I have heard that demons are dangerous creatures. I have used a ouija board (think that is how you spell it) before, but never contacted one. I have only contacted gods and goddesses.

[thalassa]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

Guys, thank all of you for your answers, it's an interesting discussion going on!


I have another question,

if we consider two meanings of the word "demon" - the Christian sense = demon as a malicious spirit, and the Hellenic sense = demon is a spirit in general (correct me if I'm wrong),

then how come this word changed its original sense??

Probably because the early Christians co-opted most things that were "pagan" and turned them into something "evil" if they couldn't adopt them and hide them in plain sight. There are probably other linguistic and historical reasons as well, but I'd be surprised if that isn't the biggest one. Vilifying something the other guy disagrees with a relatively lazy but effective way to "turn the tide" in one's favor over time.

[Malflick]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

Probably because the early Christians co-opted most things that were "pagan" and turned them into something "evil" if they couldn't adopt them and hide them in plain sight. There are probably other linguistic and historical reasons as well, but I'd be surprised if that isn't the biggest one. Vilifying something the other guy disagrees with a relatively lazy but effective way to "turn the tide" in one's favor over time.

Its more Christians co-opting the word. Demon starts appearing when the books are written in Greek, until then the word is never used, but English translations often just steam roll and use "Demon" generically for everything. The Greek writers didn't want to use the hebrew words, so they used the closest synonym they could.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

If we consider two meanings of the word "demon" - the Christian sense = demon as a malicious spirit, and the Hellenic sense = demon is a spirit in general (correct me if I'm wrong),

then how come this word changed its original sense??

I think I mentioned this already but pretty much what Maflick said. The word is Greek in origin and was used in Greek translations of the Bible. And because many Christians beleive that anything that is not YHVH is evil then the term came to mean evil spirit.

[creepyoak]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

I think I mentioned this already but pretty much what Maflick said. The word is Greek in origin and was used in Greek translations of the Bible. And because many Christians beleive that anything that is not YHVH is evil then the term came to mean evil spirit.

But I don't understand why Christians believe so? I mean what reasons did they have to change everything? If it's the matter of praying to only one spirit, they also have Mary and angels and a lot of saints, why didn't they just say that demons are nice God-helpers and we can pray to them if we like? It would be a lot easier for people to accept Christianity if they could continue praying to their previous gods.

[KahlanAmnell]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

How does one go about talking to a demon if indeed they are real? How would one talk to Satan himself if he were real?

[Aeran]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

How does one go about talking to a demon if indeed they are real? How would one talk to Satan himself if he were real?

I'm not sure about satan in particular, but the usual method would be through evocation.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

But I don't understand why Christians believe so? I mean what reasons did they have to change everything? If it's the matter of praying to only one spirit, they also have Mary and angels and a lot of saints, why didn't they just say that demons are nice God-helpers and we can pray to them if we like? It would be a lot easier for people to accept Christianity if they could continue praying to their previous gods.

Because they believe that anything that is not YHVH or an angel is evil. It really is as simple as that and there is no particular logic to it.

The job of the Ha-Satan was to test the faith of humanity... that's what YHVH wanted him to do... test the faith of humanity, tempt them into sinning and then judge them when they failed the tests. That's how the whole 'Satan tempts you into sin' thing came about... because that's what He did. There's not much of a leap from that into 'Satan will make me stray from God and I must resist him' and the 'Satan is evil and must be resisted'. And then anything that wasn't an angel was 'of Satan' and therefore also evil.

It's all just mistranslation and a matter of perspective.

How does one go about talking to a demon if indeed they are real? How would one talk to Satan himself if he were real?

Same way you talk to any spirit or deity.

[KahlanAmnell]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

The job of the Ha-Satan was to test the faith of humanity... that's what YHVH wanted him to do... test the faith of humanity, tempt them into sinning and then judge them when they failed the tests. That's how the whole 'Satan tempts you into sin' thing came about... because that's what He did. There's not much of a leap from that into 'Satan will make me stray from God and I must resist him' and the 'Satan is evil and must be resisted'. And then anything that wasn't an angel was 'of Satan' and therefore also evil.

If Satan is real (which I don't believe he is), I hope he no longer does the will of God at all. I hope he becomes a much more devoted rebel against God. Seriously, the God of the Bible is an oppressive, tyrannical freak who I also don't believe in. I would be honored to help Satan in his little coup against YHVH if they exist. It seems to me that Satan is the good guy in the Bible. He never drowned most of the people on Earth. He never told one people to kill and harm another. He seems to accept everyone regardless of gender/gender identity, race, religion, or sexuality. He doesn't expect people to worship him. He really seems to like free thinkers.

Hypothetically, it seems that it would be very painful and discouraging to be someone as nice as Satan and to be thrown out of heaven and into hell by the rather evil Jehovah.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

If Satan is real (which I don't believe he is), I hope he no longer does the will of God at all. I hope he becomes a much more devoted rebel against God. Seriously, the God of the Bible is an oppressive, tyrannical freak who I also don't believe in. I would be honored to help Satan in his little coup against YHVH if they exist. It seems to me that Satan is the good guy in the Bible. He never drowned most of the people on Earth. He never told one people to kill and harm another. He seems to accept everyone regardless of gender/gender identity, race, religion, or sexuality. He doesn't expect people to worship him. He really seems to like free thinkers.

He doesn't work for YHVH anymore... that's the point. He quit and took half the host of Heaven with Him when he Fell, hence now we have a great many Demons who were once Angels. The Ha-Satan(s) have become a figure of freedom from oppression and dogma for many people, and many Satanists would agree with what you've said here.

Hypothetically, it seems that it would be very painful and discouraging to be someone as nice as Satan and to be thrown out of heaven and into hell by the rather evil Jehovah.

Well the story goes that He was unsatisfied with His job and essentially quit. Then YHVH decided to cast him out of Heaven, which to me feels a lot like "you can't quit because you're fired... so there!" It depends on which side you're standing on as to which side of the story you believe... obviously both sides are biased in their perception of the whole thing. I don't think that YHVH is evil per se... He's just the way that He is and unfortunately the religions that have formed around Him sometimes tend towards discrimination and bigotry against everyone else. And at the end of the day, YHVH is not the only deity who has been cruel towards humanity... in fact most of the supreme deities have stories surrounding them which would suggest contempt towards humanity, which they once considered to essentially be a slave race. Zeus and Osiris are two deities who I like to bring up here... neither of them were originally particularly kind towards humans. So YHVH is not the only one who was oppressive, tyrannical and murderous.

[creepyoak]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

Satan "quit" not because he was unsatisfied with his "job", quite the contrary. He was one of the favorite God's angels, he was the "coolest one", the right hand of God, and his name was Lucifer, which means 'the bearer of light'.

But then God created the first man and told angels to bow before the man. All angels did it exept Lucifer who said that it's beneath his dignity. It was his pride that didn't let him do it, so he made a riot and with a bunch of other angels (actually one third) was thrown down on earth.

Because of his hatred for men, he tempted Eva and in that way we were exiled from the Paradise. Anyway, so the legend says.

So if Satan does exist, he isn't a "good guy", he's a bad one, because of him we lost the Paradise. Though, he became popular during the period of Romanticism, kind of a symbol of a rebel spirit.


P.S. There's an opinion, that if Adam and Eve would ask God for forgiveness, he would forgave them, but instead they began to make excuses and blame eath other. They just had to admit their fault, that's all.

[Torey]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

Creepyoak, are you a Christian at all? I appreciate if you'd rather not answer, but your statement here reflects something of a Christian worldview - there's nothing wrong with being of a Christian inclination, but I take exception to your remarks in that you have stated them in a factual manner when they are, more accurately, perceptions and opinions.

Satan "quit" not because he was unsatisfied with his "job", quite the contrary. He was one of the favorite God's angels, he was the "coolest one", the right hand of God, and his name was Lucifer, which means 'the bearer of light'.

But then God created the first man and told angels to bow before the man. All angels did it exept Lucifer who said that it's beneath his dignity. It was his pride that didn't let him do it, so he made a riot and with a bunch of other angels (actually one third) was thrown down on earth.

Because of his hatred for men, he tempted Eva and in that way we were exiled from the Paradise. Anyway, so the legend says.

Thank you for the qualifier, "so the legend says". All that you have mentioned here is regurgitation of Biblical and pseudoepigrahical mythology in which the term "Lucifer" has been apropriated and applied to Satan when the original context of the most popular instance of its usage within the Vulgate indicated an allusion to the fall of the Babylonian king - which was, in itself, a re-telling of an earlier Canaanite myth. Furthermore, "Lucifer" is used several times throughout the Vulgate and refers to many different people - one being Jesus himself - and none of them "fallen angels".

The New Testament is clearly the turning point in the mythos of "Lucifer" and "the Devil", not to mention extra-Biblical sources. There's nothing wrong with believing the stories from this point onwards, but they shouldn't be stated or implied as factual.

So if Satan does exist, he isn't a "good guy", he's a bad one, because of him we lost the Paradise. Though, he became popular during the period of Romanticism, kind of a symbol of a rebel spirit.

I take offense to this only because, once again, your perceptions are being stated as factual. Satan is only a "bad guy" if you consider A) the extra-Biblical mythologies to be factual and indeed concerning Him and B) you believe that the story of "Paradise" was true and you resent having free will which supposedly got human beings cast out. Even if "Satan" did "tempt" Eve, she made a choice - free will.

Again, if we were to identify "Satan" with the "serpent", then He is surely only fulfilling His original role as the adversary and accuser - again, His original role being to test the faith and loyalty of human beings to God. I would certainly say that by "tempting" Eve, He was testing Her. As an agent of God, Satan is not to blame for Eve's transgression - ultimately, God would be as it was God who created Satan and it was God who gave Man free will. I disagree with lumping the blame for everything based upon free will on Satan, "the Devil" or "Lucifer".

P.S. There's an opinion, that if Adam and Eve would ask God for forgiveness, he would forgave them, but instead they began to make excuses and blame eath other. They just had to admit their fault, that's all.

I find it amusing and slightly hypocritical that you mention that Adam and Eve failed to ask for forgiveness and instead blamed one another - yes, what happened to humanity taking responsibility for its own mistakes? And again it's rather simple - because it's much easier to blame someone else (i.e. - Satan, "the Devil", "Lucifer"), don't you think?

[Rae'ya]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

Satan "quit" not because he was unsatisfied with his "job", quite the contrary. He was one of the favorite God's angels, he was the "coolest one", the right hand of God, and his name was Lucifer, which means 'the bearer of light'.

But then God created the first man and told angels to bow before the man. All angels did it except Lucifer who said that it's beneath his dignity. It was his pride that didn't let him do it, so he made a riot and with a bunch of other angels (actually one third) was thrown down on earth.

See Torey's post above. I don't really have much more to add to what he said, except that I agree with him completely.

Because of his hatred for men, he tempted Eva and in that way we were exiled from the Paradise. Anyway, so the legend says.

Actually, he was doing his job here... testing the faith and obedience of Eve. Good on her for failing the test, because if she hadn't, her descendents would all be mindless oppressed slaves who have no free will or knowledge of anything outside their little Garden.

And really, Eve was just following in the conceptual footsteps of Lilith, although she needed that nudge from the serpent first.

So if Satan does exist, he isn't a "good guy", he's a bad one, because of him we lost the Paradise. Though, he became popular during the period of Romanticism, kind of a symbol of a rebel spirit.

I don't know about you, but Paradise is the last place I would want to end up. But aside from anything, humanity didn't lose Paradise... they just have to earn their way back in. You know... by repenting and accepting YHVH as their supreme deity and all that. It's not lost forever, you just have to live out your existence down here on the mundane plane first.

You did hit it there with the 'symbol of a rebel spirit' bit... rebelling against dogma, oppression, flock mentality, unquestioning blind faith and ignorance are some of the things that Ha-Satan(s) are representative of.

[creepyoak]

Re: Have you ever talked to a demon?

Torey, yes, what I have said is only an opinion, and I didn't really want it to sound in such manner, unfortunately my poor qualifier "so the legend says" didn't change anything much.

Can I ask you, do you believe in Satan, or you see him as a fiction figure created by imagination of men to justify their weakness?

Rae'ya, what about you, do you believe in Satan's existance? What do you think about Yahveh and his Paradise, do you consider him as an ordinary deity?