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    Questions about the roman religion.


    #2
    Re: Questions about the roman religion.

    I'm not certain about the first part, but on the second part--this has actually come up in discussion before here. The general consensus, I thought, was that it wasn't a really good idea if you are interested in reconstructing the religion of the Greeks and Romans. They had very clear ideas about miasma or spiritual pollution, which had to be cleansed through ritual purification before one could participate in public or civic religious ceremonies. Bodily fluids usually fit into things that caused miasma; hence why you see prohibitions for not just murderers, but for women who had recently given birth.
    So, even though Venus was and is a goddess of love and sexuality, it might not necessarily be appropriate to give semen as an offering.

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      #3
      Re: Questions about the roman religion.

      Simply put, no it is not correct or part of the mos maiorum (way of the ancestors) to offer human semen or blood.

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        #4
        Re: Questions about the roman religion.

        Given that the majority of religious practices would be in the home and to the home gods / goddesses and family spirits I do not see calling upon the larger gods / goddesses to be reflective of typical practices as we can prove to any degree. While Roman practices were influenced by Hellenic in that the gods / goddesses became more than shells there was still a lot of difference between individual / family practice and community practice and processions.

        Though I don't know of any practices that really called upon Pluton / Hades nor any temples dedicated to them.
        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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          #5
          Re: Questions about the roman religion.

          Dis Pater (the more traditional Latinized Pluto/Hades) did have a cult following in Rome and the provinces. In fact, Julius Caesar talks extensively in De Bello Gallico about the Gauls worshiping Dis Pater as one of their main deities. This would imply that the Romans had a large enough cult at the time to be able to draw parallels with the Gauls. Also, several altars depicting Dis Pater and Proserpina have been uncovered throughout the Empire and within Rome itself.

          Further proof of the Roman attitude towards Dis Pater lies in the writings of the ancient poets. Varro lists Orcus (another name for Dis Pater) as one of the Dii Selecti or principle gods of Rome. Continuing with the older theme of Orcus, there is currently some speculation among archaeologists over a site on the Palentine Hill that may have hosted a temple dedicated to Orcus.

          It is important to point out that in the earlier days of Rome, Orcus was primarily a god of oaths. After the Romans came into more extensive contact with Greek culture was the name Dis Pater created and the deity's original dominion expanded.

          Dis Pater v Hades is very similar to Mars v Ares. The Greeks avoided both Ares and Hades, but the Romans embraced them.

          The domestic cult is a cornerstone of the Religio Romana; however, most people include aspects of the civic cult as well. There could be any number of reasons as to this. In my opinion, chiefly among those reasons is that we have far more information on the civic rather than the domestic cult. Yes, we no longer have active temples or a priesthood that could conduct the civic rituals, but it is possible to make some of those rites appropriate and practical for the home. The second biggest reason I see is that the parts of the domestic cult we do know of are very focused on the ancestors and the paterfamilias. Very, very few people are second generation in the Religio Romana. Essentially that means that their domestic cult is without its head. Few are second generation, but even fewer are third. This prevents any sort of traditional ancestor veneration from happening.

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            #6
            Re: Questions about the roman religion.

            Yes but in that regard I do not think Dis Pater (Dispater) was seen as the overlord of the infernal regions. It only was when he is conflated with Pluto does that happen, but prior to that more with underground wealth, fertility, etc which would be different than the norm for Pluto I'd think.

            Even with regard to Caesar and the Gauls with Dispater I've seen opinions that think he was referring to the fact they claim to be descend from a god like Dispater not that they descend from Gaulish Dispater.

            However, I admit I am not an authority of Italian practices and the evolution of the Roman, Etruscan, etc gods / goddesses as the various groups vied for dominance of the Italian landmass.

            I tend to think the thing with the civic cult is that it could be something that occurred every so many years as celebrations, rituals, etc other than certain families making donations and other support to the civic places. But that is just my opinion
            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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              #7
              Re: Questions about the roman religion.

              Actually, the converse is true. The evolution of the deity can be looked at in two forms. First there was Orcus who reigned over the underworld and protected oaths. His more savage role as punished of oath-breakers survives through the evolution of his name. His name was used by the Christian Anglo-Saxons to refer to Hell and we use the feminine version of his name (Orca) to refer to killer whales. So in summary Orcus was the original Latin/Etruscan Hades.

              Like I previously mentioned, it was only after contact with Hellenic culture that the Romans began to associate wealth with Orcus. At around this time you start to see a trend towards referring to him as Dis Pater or Plutus, the latter being a corruption of the Greek word and god.

              The Roman worldview pretty much eliminates the like Dis Pater or Dis Pater debate. A certain animistic, anti-anthropomorphic tenet of King Numa Pompilius survived throughout much of pagan Rome. If a deity could be compared to a pre-existing Roman one, then in the Romans' minds they were the same being. Other deities that had no Roman equivalent were just accepted as regional gods and Latinized to one degree or another. So when Caesar, Tacitus, or any other Roman said "The (insert culture) worship (insert Roman deity)." in their mind it was a fact. They, like many other Mediterranean cultures, saw their deities as being universal forces worshiped uniquely by every culture.

              The civic cult in ancient times was far from that. Public rituals were held on a much more regular basis than in Greece. The interesting thing about the Religio Romana is the idea of pietas. It was basically civic virtue on steroids. Every Roman citizen was expected to honor the state gods regardless of their own religious affiliation. (why they thought this was acceptable ties back into their complex view of deity) The idea was that the "major" gods were to the Empire as the ancestors were to the family.

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