The God Graveyard

[Raphaeline]

http://baringtheaegis.blogspot.com/2013/11/on-god-graveyard.html

What are your feelings on this?

Although I can certainly understand how it could be upsetting to worshipers of these gods (Dionysos is included, after all), I don't feel too strongly about it - but a lot of polytheists have been vocal about how offensive it is to them. I consider it more... thoughtless or ignorant. They wouldn't be the first folks in this country to think that the only current religious options are the Judeo-Christian ones.

But I do like some of the responses shared here, particularly about how the religious majority often treats Pagan polytheists the same way (the group responsible for the graveyard is an Atheist and Agnostic one).

[Aeran]

Re: The God Graveyard

I'm not sure how I feel about it. On the one hand, I can understand why someone would be deeply offended by it, and even though it doesn't bother me personally since I don't really have a close relationship with any specific deities, there's a definite undercurrent of snide arrogance within the atheist community which really bugs me. On the flip side, it seems fairly small in the scheme of things, something thoughtless enacted by ignorant people, and I don't see what would be achieved by getting worked up about it. It was designed to provoke Christians, but I'm sure they'll take any religious anger in a pinch, I think the best way to react to something like this is to just ignore it and not provide them with the validation of a reaction.

[Satu]

Re: The God Graveyard

It's ignorant of what's actually going on in the religious world. Atheists like to ignore the polytheistic gods, though, because their pat arguments against an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipresent god don't work so great against gods from polytheistic traditions. So it's easier to sweep the gods under the rug.

But I wouldn't say anything to atheists, because this kind of thing is a game to them. A game that was designed so that only *they* can win. It's all about perceived intellectual superiority and arrogance and nothing about dialogue, no matter what they say. *sigh* I have had, in all my travels, maybe ONE open dialogue with an atheist where I wasn't treated like a drooling moron for my beliefs. I've been called crazy ("Scientology makes more sense than your religion."), retarded ("Religious people are all retarded."), a genocidal c**ksucker (wh-what?), and lots of other things.

Unfortunately, a lot of atheists (and agnostics) are getting as bad as fundie Christians. What many atheists do or say sounds a lot like Bible-thumping to me, except there's no Bible.

A fundie's a fundie no matter the beliefs.

[Quetzal]

Re: The God Graveyard

Unfortunately, a lot of atheists (and agnostics) are getting as bad as fundie Christians. What many atheists do or say sounds a lot like Bible-thumping to me, except there's no Bible.

A fundie's a fundie no matter the beliefs.

You're mixing up atheists and anti-theists there. Watch this video. Apparently anti-theists are most like to be dogmatic in their beliefs.

[ChainLightning]

Re: The God Graveyard

I know my feelings about their display: I couldn't care less.

I mean, there's a couple things that kind of irk me about this student group's project, here, but I find more things (that irk me) in the reactions to it. There's this huge misconception syndrome that seems to travel, like an epidemic, throughout society. This display reveals that in a fair amount, on both sides of the fence. Chiefly, for me, is the automatic blame put on atheists for their ignorance. Ignorance? Pot, meet kettle!

Suppose it was me. I set up this display. And set it up in exactly the same way. Would the Pagan community accuse me of being an ignorant athiest? An ignorant pagan? To me, those folks jumping on the victim bandwagon have completely missed the entire point of the exercise. Either out of willful ignorance or even just because they want to perpetuate a mythical persecution.

Still. I don't care one way or the other. The message, in that display, will invariably be overlooked, in favor of some personal and misplaced indignation. Welcome to the 21st century.

[Gleb]

Re: The God Graveyard

I consider it as an offensive place to the Gods. After all, non of them died... They still live and exist among us. Even if it doesn't mean to live in a human form.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: The God Graveyard

At the risk of getting my more straight laced and devout friends ticked (which they should be used to by now...), let me just say I think it's kindda funny, for the following reasons:

A. I'm always reading about how intolerant and dogmatic Christians are. Are pagans that way too now, that they get huffy & pissy if somebody questions their beliefs? I should maybe go hang with the Catholics - they have more money, and silver crosses are cheesy-easy to make...

B. I would suggest to everybody that, if you have never questioned your own beliefs, you might just as well be brain dead. Take that graveyard as a sign that maybe you oughtta. You don't HAVE to arrive at the same conclusions as atheists, but it's worth your time and headspace to consider some of the same questions.

C. It's free speech lads and lasses - if you don't like it, don't look. It's not as if they are forcing you to look, or shouting obscenities at you during a loved one's funeral. Just get over it, and have a nice day.

D. Interesting question... these gods were powerful once, and entire civilizations worshiped them (I think I'm paraphrasing from the article). Where did they go when the fashionable and trendy deity changed? Maybe Jesus H. Christ really IS the powerhorse of heaven, or maybe fads and fantasies changed over time. I don't know, but is it a crime to think about it, or even to suggest it? Thought police, anyone?

"JOIN US. Question everything." and "GOD GRAVEYARD. Here lie the graves of thousands of dead gods. Once worshiped by entire civilizations, now only myths. How much longer will the gods of today last?"

Question everything. I actually like that...

...it's the way you get smarter.

[Medusa]

Re: The God Graveyard

It's ignorant of what's actually going on in the religious world. Atheists like to ignore the polytheistic gods, though, because their pat arguments against an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipresent god don't work so great against gods from polytheistic traditions. So it's easier to sweep the gods under the rug.

But I wouldn't say anything to atheists, because this kind of thing is a game to them. A game that was designed so that only *they* can win. It's all about perceived intellectual superiority and arrogance and nothing about dialogue, no matter what they say. *sigh* I have had, in all my travels, maybe ONE open dialogue with an atheist where I wasn't treated like a drooling moron for my beliefs. I've been called crazy ("Scientology makes more sense than your religion."), retarded ("Religious people are all retarded."), a genocidal c**ksucker (wh-what?), and lots of other things.

Unfortunately, a lot of atheists (and agnostics) are getting as bad as fundie Christians. What many atheists do or say sounds a lot like Bible-thumping to me, except there's no Bible.

A fundie's a fundie no matter the beliefs.

I am an atheist. Please do not put words in my mouth as to what I think. You really won't like it. And you will just end up babbling about the Dark Lord Satan and how tender deep fried baby legs are.

[Raphaeline]

Re: The God Graveyard

Chiefly, for me, is the automatic blame put on atheists for their ignorance. Ignorance? Pot, meet kettle!

Suppose it was me. I set up this display. And set it up in exactly the same way. Would the Pagan community accuse me of being an ignorant athiest? An ignorant pagan? To me, those folks jumping on the victim bandwagon have completely missed the entire point of the exercise. Either out of willful ignorance or even just because they want to perpetuate a mythical persecution.

I think my initial reaction was the assumption that these folks weren't setting out to piss off Pagans so much as show Christians, the religious majority in this country, that while they might think their God is the biggest and best, if not only, God there is, these gods were once thought of the same way by their worshipers. I've got no idea if they are aware that polytheists still honor those gods - I'm sure most people aren't aware those practices are still going on.

My feelings aren't hurt... I don't know these people and it's not evident by their project that they mean any harm.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm just going to leave this here.
http://thehouseofvines.com/2013/11/11/do-i-detect-the-baying-of-the-hounds-upon-the-wind/

[Satu]

Re: The God Graveyard

I am an atheist. Please do not put words in my mouth as to what I think. You really won't like it. And you will just end up babbling about the Dark Lord Satan and how tender deep fried baby legs are.

Oh, please.

A. Dark Lord Satan actually sounds like he'd be decent company. Certainly an interesting character. Tell him he needs to call ahead though so I can have some refreshments ready. I hope he's partial to oolong tea and oreos.

and

B. Deep fried baby legs are TASTY. But oh-so difficult to obtain. *pines sadly* They're good with soy sauce or ketchup.

I stand by what I said. I have had few positive interactions with atheists of all stripes both online AND offline. Are there exceptions? Are there plenty of atheists who have respect for others and I haven't met them? Sure. I've met one before, maybe two, if you count one of my old professors. But we didn't want anything to do with each other because of the ol' college rumor mill. (Did you know that if a female student and a male professor chat a little bit after every class, they're sleeping together? So totally did not know this.)

There are jerkfaces in EVERY group, whether that group is religious, political, or concerned with deep fried baby legs. What I'm saying is I've had few positive experiences, and this latest happening is just another proverbial "drop in the bucket" for me.

In the long run, it doesn't exactly matter. The gods can't be hurt.

I'll change my tune when I have more positive experiences. I don't need many. Maybe three or four so I can know that the hattery I've seen and experienced is the exception rather than the rule.

I used to *be* an atheist. I had a good streak of anti-theism going, too. I'm pretty--though not completely--familiar with the mindset.

I also like how you completely ignored the fact that I've had numerous negative experiences.

That's all I've got to say. I've already broken my cardinal rule twice, which makes me cringe. That rule is: DO NOT ENGAGE.

[iflewoverthecuckoosnest]

Re: The God Graveyard

Doesn't really bother me, to be honest. As long as this group isn't spreading ignorance about us pagans ourselves, I don't see why we should get offended over it.

[ChainLightning]

Re: The God Graveyard

I'm just going to leave this here.
http://thehouseofvines.com/2013/11/1...upon-the-wind/

Now, that piece? I take umbrage with that. Anyone that tries to imply that my morals are lacking or that I'm dishonoring the gods, by not taking a thought exercise they way they feel I ought to, is seriously misguided - in the sense that I should measure up to THEIR morality and, perhaps, decency. Uh, no. I value thought, questioning and curiosity. I support open analysis of one's own beliefs, as much as I support the study of others.

If a thing is designed to provoke thought, something to ponder or consider, how does some yahoo's morality yardstick get involved with how someone else thinks or feels? Someone mentioned fundies earlier. Thought police also came up. Both ideas apply, here, mandating (by insinuation, at the very least) one's required reaction, if they want to be morally pure and decent in honoring their relationship with the divine. If not the gods and goddesses, themselves.

I would be doing my ancestors a grave disservice, not thinking for myself.

[Medusa]

Re: The God Graveyard

It seems your 'very few one or two atheists' makes you suddenly an expert in all atheists.
Go you.
I'm going to let your own words sink in there a bit.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: The God Graveyard

Atheists like to ignore the polytheistic gods, though, because their pat arguments against an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipresent god don't work so great against gods from polytheistic traditions. So it's easier to sweep the gods under the rug.

Fundamental flaw in your sentence structure. Atheists don't ignore the gods. You can't ignore what you don't believe is real. What is real to you, and what is real to me are two different things.

[Sondst]

Re: The God Graveyard

I see this as an atheist movement? I understand it and a few years ago Id be in support, and sadly I hate to admit I'm in support in regards to an abrahamic god. But. I've learned just to hold my tongue, and so should every other religious and non religious person. You don't need to respect the religion but you should respect the person. This entire act unfortuently disrespects the people.

that being said I believe this was a shot at Christians not necessarily pagans,
many atheists I know and when I was atheist I found there is respect for Wicca and paganism because there is no forcing of the religion on others.