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    Apostasy in Islam

    I'm not going out of my way to try to bash Islam but when someone mentions something bad about Islam, they usually mention the treatment of their women or something like that but they don't talk too much about apostasy in Islam where it is illegal in quite a few Muslim countries and some countries will put others to death over it. Some punishments are more lenient than others but people will get the death penalty. I don't see too many Muslims condemn these acts, maybe a few in the west might object to it but apparently it's still illegal in many Muslim majority countries. Unfortunately the Muslims in those countries don't seem to do much about it which tells you that millions of people think you should be killed just because you turn away from their faith. Islam is the ONLY religion I know of that gives out punishment for apostasy. Where do you see Christians or Buddhists prosecuting you for turning away from their faith? Any Heathens that do that or Wiccans or Jews or Hindus? The people might give you less respect or some might not care at all like Hindus or Sikhs. It's difficult to call Islam a religion of peace when a lot of Muslims are ok with you being punished for turning away from their faith. Don't say I'm a racist when Muslims are not a race. It's difficult to show tolerance when a lot of Muslims are intolerant of others.

    #2
    Re: Apostasy in Islam

    Christianity did this too. It's just much more difficult to kill people who turn from faith since we have few theocratic governments and views have become more moderate overtime.
    Circe

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      #3
      Re: Apostasy in Islam

      I'm not talking about what religions did back then. Almost all religions did animal sacrifice or human sacrifice like the Druids and Aztecs, I'm talking about religions that punish people for apostasy today and so far Islam is the only one that does it.

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        #4
        Re: Apostasy in Islam

        That's due to as I said many Islamic countries having Theocratic government systems while most western societies do not. It's difficult to execute someone for changing religions if it's illegal.
        Circe

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          #5
          Re: Apostasy in Islam

          I'd go to the Ask a Muslim thread. Dumuzi is the resident Muslim and is very thoughtful with his answers.
          Satan is my spirit animal

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            #6
            Re: Apostasy in Islam

            "If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

            Apostasy is a topic that can get confusing, especially since in Islam it's not merely the change of ones religion. In the Qur'an for example, it is stated over and over again that there is no compulsion in religion. You simply are not allowed to make someone believe against their will. (I gave one example above, there are others I can share if anyone is interested)

            The topic of rejecting religion after being a believer is also mentioned in the Qur'an, but not once is a worldly punishment prescribed for it. For example one verse states:

            "Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way." [4:137]

            As you can see it talks about disbelieving after believing over and over again but it never talks about punishing those people in this life. Actually, if people were killed for merely leaving the religion, how can they believe and disbelieve then believe and disbelieve again? Wouldn't they be already dead?

            The confusion actually comes from a number of saying by Muhammad about people committing ridda and that they are to be executed. Thing is these sayings were about people who didn't just leave the religion, but they also joined the other side which was fighting Muslims at the time. (In early Islamic history Muslims were persecuted against by the Arab Pagans) In some of these sayings it becomes more clear that it's not just someone who leaves the religion, but someone who acts against the nation. In short, it's someone committing treason in terms we use today.

            So as you can say, if you combine the fact that the Qur'an itself speaks against compulsion in matters of religion, with knowing a bit of history behind these sayings it becomes clear that there is no execution for the mere leaving of Islam. And God knows best, of course

            "There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [2:256]
            [4:82]

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              #7
              Re: Apostasy in Islam

              Originally posted by Dumuzi View Post
              "If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe?" [The Qur'an 10:99]

              Apostasy is a topic that can get confusing, especially since in Islam it's not merely the change of ones religion. In the Qur'an for example, it is stated over and over again that there is no compulsion in religion. You simply are not allowed to make someone believe against their will. (I gave one example above, there are others I can share if anyone is interested)

              The topic of rejecting religion after being a believer is also mentioned in the Qur'an, but not once is a worldly punishment prescribed for it. For example one verse states:

              "Indeed, those who have believed then disbelieved, then believed, then disbelieved, and then increased in disbelief - never will Allah forgive them, nor will He guide them to a way." [4:137]

              As you can see it talks about disbelieving after believing over and over again but it never talks about punishing those people in this life. Actually, if people were killed for merely leaving the religion, how can they believe and disbelieve then believe and disbelieve again? Wouldn't they be already dead?

              The confusion actually comes from a number of saying by Muhammad about people committing ridda and that they are to be executed. Thing is these sayings were about people who didn't just leave the religion, but they also joined the other side which was fighting Muslims at the time. (In early Islamic history Muslims were persecuted against by the Arab Pagans) In some of these sayings it becomes more clear that it's not just someone who leaves the religion, but someone who acts against the nation. In short, it's someone committing treason in terms we use today.

              So as you can say, if you combine the fact that the Qur'an itself speaks against compulsion in matters of religion, with knowing a bit of history behind these sayings it becomes clear that there is no execution for the mere leaving of Islam. And God knows best, of course

              "There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [2:256]
              I think I understand what you're saying. Did radicals mess it up? Because apostasy does seem to be illegal in some Muslim countries. I'm guessing extremists would have made that law since you say the Koran doesn't give out a punishment for those who leave it.

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                #8
                Re: Apostasy in Islam

                Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                I think I understand what you're saying. Did radicals mess it up? Because apostasy does seem to be illegal in some Muslim countries. I'm guessing extremists would have made that law since you say the Koran doesn't give out a punishment for those who leave it.
                i think this is another perfect example for iraqy/afghan/syrian/saudi arabian etc etc etc Culture being mixed with Islam. This happens in so many cases from small benine silly things to really important things that end up making the religion in itself look bad amongst people who do not follow it or know much about it. I have seriously stoped counting.
                Another big factor is what the government does in those countries. What they say is law, is law (!!) and that will be done. Governments also love to use religion (or anything else really. lol what does the government NOT use to make themself look like frikken saints?!) to cover up bad things, desperately trying to make it look like something good that they are doing. I mean what sounds better, which of these 2 do you think a large ammount of people would follow easier, you tell me, I'm sure you will see what I am sayin here...:
                "We're killing you because we think this is how strict our religion should be but it doesn't actually say it...but people we know better than God" or "We're doing this because God says this is how it should be. This is what our holy book tells us. It's in the name of God"
                Last I think would sound better.
                That being said I do also believe that extremists play a roll in this. If you are an extreme person who believes in punishment for everything and you're harsh in that way and strict in pretty much everything..everything you teach, everything you learn, everything you read (including the Qur'an or the bilble or whatever), simply everything is going to be influenced by your personality. It will be interpreted in that way, especially bible texts. They are so easily interpreted, everyone reads or sees something else. Then it's just a matter of who is interpreting what how and if that human being has pure or bad intentions. Then that person has kids and raises them that way, they grow up have kids and raise them in that sense...and so on and so on. And then by time you know it there are 40 people alone in one family doing Islam THEIR WAY but saying that is the ACTUAL WAY...and the rumors begin -_-
                Easy peasy (ya 3azeezi ^^ @D ) if you are a bad person with bad intentions and you wish to cause harm to people you WILL find a way to do it and if you read the Qur'an you WILL twist things to make whatever is inside of it fit your needs. You then WILL use it as an excuse and that is what bashes not only Islam but many other religions all around the world.
                Plus the only reason why everyone is hearing so much about Muslims and Islam in the news these days is simply because they have become a hot topic since the wars in Iraq and 9/11 and Afghanistan and then the stuff happening in Lybia and so on and so on. Before all of that I barely ever heard anyone talking any kind of rumors about Muslims and now it seems it's the only thing people can talk about anymore.

                Last but not least, to whomever hears really bad things about Islam or the Qur'an, things that make you turn your head and react with a thought like "What the hell?! Really?? That's just horrible" ... Before believeing it for just one second, ask that person where they got their info from, usually these people don't even know what the hell they are talking about, and if it was TV...seriously no comment needed. Or simply read the Qur'an. We read about everythig else, why not read that book as well and find the truth for one self. If enough people would do this I think maybe one day the bad talk about this religion could finaly come to an end.
                Last edited by Guest; 28 Nov 2013, 00:19.

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