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    #1

    Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

    Activist group hangs competing holiday sign in Pitman
    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/12/activist_group_hangs_atheist_holiday_sign_in_pitman_1.html
    A Wisconsin-based group, which advocates for keeping religion out of government, put up a billboard in Pitman that reads "Keep Saturn in Saturnalia."


    I step out from my absence in the past few months to share my opinion about this.

    I used to live in Pitman NJ, and now I live the next town over, and this seems to be a hot topic for the second year in a row and frankly I'm sick of it.

    If you didn't read the article here's the story in brief; A WI based freedom from religion group got upset with the town of Pitman last year for having a "Keep Christ in Christmas" banner hanging over mainsteet. Pitmanites showed their support for the banner by putting "keep Christ in Christmas" signs on there front lawns, the banner stayed, and it was really a huge mess over nothing. It all started when an alleged local woman (though turns out, it was really a woman from WI who saw a picture of the banner on her friend from Pitman's facebook page, and then assumed the identity of her friend) wrote into the local newspaper claiming she was greatly offended by the presence of the sign, thought it was insensitive to non-Christians and wanted it taken down.

    This year once again the Banner went up, and the freedom from religion group retaliated and rented a billboard on the outside of town that reads "Keep Saturn in Saturnalia" and the feud is renewed.

    Pitman is a pretty strange town, especially for NJ, extremely conservative and Christian (There are I believe 15 christian churches in 4 sq miles.) The town and its residents try very hard to uphold the white picket fence image. However as of late the town has a raging teen drug problem, but that's another story.

    As a person of my Religious and spiritual path, I must say before this mess, I never had an issue, now in the area there is a "with us or against us" attitude developing and while I was once comfortable with using Witchvox and craiglist to find kindred spirits to meet up with or just talk with, now I find myself being baited and harassed by frustrated people lashing out on the people they now feel are attacking their beliefs. I have no problem with the Knights of Columbus and their keep Christ in Christmas banner, and like it actually, and I respect it. What bothers me is this anti-religious group is using another persons spirituality to attack someone elses faith, and make it feel novel, and that it lacks legitimacy. They don't care about Saturnalia or any spiritual holiday for that matter, they just wish to stir the pot.
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    #2
    Re: Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

    The issue with the banner that Pitman puts up, is that it is government property, and thus is a case if the government favoring one religion over others... Which is one of the things that the 1st Amendment protects against.

    The banner is unconstitutional.
    "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

      Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
      The issue with the banner that Pitman puts up, is that it is government property, and thus is a case if the government favoring one religion over others... Which is one of the things that the 1st Amendment protects against.

      The banner is unconstitutional.
      Doesn't that depend on:

      1. who paid for the banner
      2. did any other religions ask to be included and were they denied?

      Because isn't it really freedom FOR religion, not freedom from it? I didn't think public buildings being involved in religious decor was a problem, unless other faiths were not allowed equal opportunity?

      Besides, Christmas is SPECIFICALLY about Christ, no matter how the season has become secularized, so if that's unconstitutional, so is having the day off for Christmas, isn't it?

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

        The banner has hung for 35 years I believe, banners space is rented and approved by city council, other banners include one for the masonic temple pancake brekfasts, one about the towns "first friday" festivals, and there are plenty of various other seasonal ones.

        - - - Updated - - -

        Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
        The issue with the banner that Pitman puts up, is that it is government property, and thus is a case if the government favoring one religion over others... Which is one of the things that the 1st Amendment protects against.

        The banner is unconstitutional.
        The banner is hung over a public road, but actually attached to two private bussinesses. Thus why efforts to take it own last year were halted.

        Its no more unconstitutional than a religious or political billboard.

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

          Originally posted by callmeclemens View Post
          The banner is hung over a public road, but actually attached to two private bussinesses. Thus why efforts to take it own last year were halted.

          Its no more unconstitutional than a religious or political billboard.
          that would change things, for sure.

          I thought you were saying that it was the city itself that was putting up the banner, and thus assumed that it was hung on government property (such as light poles, or something).

          No laws against private entities favoring whatever religion that they want.
          "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

            Because a banner or not a banner is going to make a flipping difference.
            Tis the season
            Satan is my spirit animal

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

              I agree with everyone else. If it's private property, they can do what they want. They're entitled to speak their mind, even if what they have to say sucks.

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

                Frankly the town and people should be allowed to have their banner. I personally am starting to be a wee bit frightened by the not athiest, but anti theist things I have been hearing. People should be allowed to have their religions, no matter what they are, and as long as they are not interfering with anyone else's rights. However, when mocking religion becomes the way you combat it, this seems wrong too. I just don't like the fact that to be against political endorsement of any specific religion, you suddenly have to be an a-hole. Belittling people for the sake of belittling people is stupid and this whole mess in this little town is massively crazy. I am so sorry your hometown is in such an uproar, and that you must feel like you don't much belong in either group? Not christian but not anti-thiest, it sucks that it became so damn polarized.
                http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

                But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
                ~Jim Butcher

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Keep Saturn in Saturnalia

                  After reading the comments, I must say:
                  "Silly Americans, blaming everything on socialism and left-wing."

                  Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

                  Comment

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