Philosopher's Stone?

[Burning Shadow Alchemist]

With all seriousness, who here believes that the philosopher's stone is real and can be crafted?

Personally I do.

[Corvus]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

For those who don't know the philosopher's stone is supposedly a mystical substance that's used to create and elixir of immortality and/or transmute "base metals" like lead or mercury into gold. The creation of this substance was the ultimate goal of early alchemists and/or chemists.

An elixir of immortality is found in numerous world cultures, amrita, ambrosia, soma and others. Whether this is human fancy or evidence that such a substance does exist is impossible for us to say. I'm willing to entertain the notion but I'm not sure if I'd say I believe it.

As for the turning base metal to gold, I don't really believe that. Modern understanding of atoms and elements was not fully understood by the people searching for this process. It's highly unlikely that any such process exists. This is something which could be tested with modern science as we now know about how elements interact to form chemical reactions. No known process exists.

[Denarius]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

As for the turning base metal to gold, I don't really believe that. Modern understanding of atoms and elements was not fully understood by the people searching for this process. It's highly unlikely that any such process exists. This is something which could be tested with modern science as we now know about how elements interact to form chemical reactions. No known process exists.

Actually, it is possible to turn lead into gold. It's just really expensive. Read all about it. You can do a lot of crazy stuff with a particle accelerator.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

The phrase, which is often repeated in the European Alchemical works I am familiar with -

"The gold we seek is not the gold of which you speak"

- would suggest it's a metaphor.

The term "gold" is generally used to refer to the end product of any operation in Alchemy.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

The phrase, which is often repeated in the European Alchemical works I am familiar with -

"The gold we seek is not the gold of which you speak"

- would suggest it's a metaphor.

The term "gold" is generally used to refer to the end product of any operation in Alchemy.

That was my basic understanding of the process, and pretty much ALL of my understanding of it.

[Burning Shadow Alchemist]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

From my knowledge of the subject, the stone manifest as a heavy crystalline substance described as being similar to pulverized glass, ranging from crimson to saffron in color.

Corvus: Just as Denarius said they proved it possible, even in the 1960's by bombarding a pool of mercury with high energy particles they formed a small amount of gold.

B. de Corbin: Im glad someone knew that there are several variations of the phase one of is in my quote's. The gold is actually two things, the end result of the alchemical process as you said and the inner transformation of the alchemists themselves.

The point of alchemy isn't to make gold or live forever, an Alchemist's work is for personal purification and inner perfection. The stone is the final test.

[Aeran]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

The phrase, which is often repeated in the European Alchemical works I am familiar with -

"The gold we seek is not the gold of which you speak"

- would suggest it's a metaphor.

The term "gold" is generally used to refer to the end product of any operation in Alchemy.

Which texts does that quote come from? I'm far from an expert, but I thought the 'alchemy as a metaphor for spiritual growth' concept was a fairly recent one. Of course I could be wrong, after all there's a very strong relationship between physical alchemy and internal/energetic/spiritual alchemy (neidan and waidan) in Taoist philosophy, so I don't see why the same couldn't exist in the West given the strong parralels between Eastern and western esoteric philosophy, but my understanding is that there's never been any conclusive proof of such.

[thalassa]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

Which texts does that quote come from? I'm far from an expert, but I thought the 'alchemy as a metaphor for spiritual growth' concept was a fairly recent one. Of course I could be wrong, after all there's a very strong relationship between physical alchemy and internal/energetic/spiritual alchemy (neidan and waidan) in Taoist philosophy, so I don't see why the same couldn't exist in the West given the strong parralels between Eastern and western esoteric philosophy, but my understanding is that there's never been any conclusive proof of such.

You should try reading...

Oh, crap, I forgot her name.

CORBIN!!! What was that lady's name of that thing I was reading?


*dig*

*rummage*

*dig*


*found it*

Mary Anne Atwood

Depending on one's idea of "recent" its really not all that recent...nor, is it likely to be recent at all.

Actually, it is possible to turn lead into gold. It's just really expensive. Read all about it. You can do a lot of crazy stuff with a particle accelerator.

Yeah, but that's not alchemy. Its, ya know, physics. The two diverged paths long ago...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

Which texts does that quote come from? I'm far from an expert, but I thought the 'alchemy as a metaphor for spiritual growth' concept was a fairly recent one. Of course I could be wrong, after all there's a very strong relationship between physical alchemy and internal/energetic/spiritual alchemy (neidan and waidan) in Taoist philosophy, so I don't see why the same couldn't exist in the West given the strong parralels between Eastern and western esoteric philosophy, but my understanding is that there's never been any conclusive proof of such.

It's a paraphrase from Moreienus (translated into Latin from Arabic around 1200). I can't find it off hand (I'm buried at work), but I'll hunt it up later, if I can find time.

It's actually the other way around - when the "spiritual" element was lost or ignored, it turned into pro-chemistry. The "physical Alchemists" were derogatorily referred to as "puffers" (because of the bellows they used to fire up their fires). This would be guys like Boyle.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Philosopher's Stone?

It's a paraphrase from Moreienus (translated into Latin from Arabic around 1200). I can't find it off hand (I'm buried at work), but I'll hunt it up later, if I can find time.

It's actually the other way around - when the "spiritual" element was lost or ignored, it turned into pro-chemistry. The "physical Alchemists" were derogatorily referred to as "puffers" (because of the bellows they used to fire up their fires). This would be guys like Boyle.

Puffers, huh? I like that. Very apropos.

I always got the impression from you that the actual alchemical activities were more like a ritual than using a chemistry set, though the attention to the act was part of the ritual. I can see how it would be frustrating then to see the confusion between amateur science 101 and alchemy then, hence the 'puffer' title.