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    Heimdall

    I don't know much about Heathenry at all and while I'm slightly familiar with some of the tales associated with the Aesir and Vanir (I read a bit about them over 10 years ago), my knowledge on them is rusty at best. However, Heimdall has been something of an interest to me for a while.


    Where would be the best place to find information about him?

    Does anyone have impressions of him they don't mind sharing?

    Thanks.

    #2
    Re: Heimdall

    I'm not quite sure why we've not seen any replies, here, Keldorn. But so you know that people ARE looking



    To be totally honest, I don't know the best place to find out info about him.

    I saw a painting (or maybe it was just a drawing, I can't recall exactly) many years ago that was supposedly of him. (Why on earth do I keep thinking of Vallejo?!?) Then saw that Hollywierd film, Thor, and got a completely different view from that impression I'd previously had. Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you where I saw the 'illustration', either, but it was quite unlike anything that was shown in the movie... I mean, aside from a few basic details.

    This is majorly not my strong suit. Most days, I couldn't tell the difference between Ragnarok and a Sumble. Except that the Sumble might get to be a bit louder. Maybe even a bit more rowdy...




    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

    "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

    "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

    "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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      #3
      Re: Heimdall

      Originally posted by Keldorn View Post
      Where would be the best place to find information about him?
      Generally, any of the major Asatru and Heathenry sources would be good places to start. The primary sources (the Edda, the Icelandic Sagas, some of the academic authors etc) are usually the first place that most Heathens (especially the reconstructionist kind) will point you, but those sources are very difficult to get through if you are only interested in one particular deity. So that's probably not what you are looking for here. It's presumed that Heimdall is also the character named 'Rig', and therefore the Rigsthula is usually attributed to being about him.

      Most of the sources that I would recommend are books, so it depends on whether you have a good library nearby or are interested in purchasing books as to whether my list would be useful or not.

      As far as websites go... I'm not Heathen, and so I don't frequent Heathen websites or groups. But the Northern Tradition folk have an online shrine to him here:



      Originally posted by Keldorn View Post
      Does anyone have impressions of him they don't mind sharing?
      I've never worked with Heimdall myself, so I have no first hand experience of him. But from what I've read and head, I have a few impressions. It's said that he has a fondness for the denizens of Midgardhr, which many people take to mean that he has a fondness for humans. He has a well known dislike for Loki and for the Jotnar in general... and so I've heard that he doesn't take kindly to people who work with Loki, Jotunfolk or the Rokkr deities.

      I've also heard that he takes his job very seriously, not just as gate guard of Bifrost, but as protector of the people of Midgardhr. He has incredibly sharp eyesight and hearing... stemming from having sacrificed an ear, and he is generally said to be shining and fair. No one knows who his mother is, but it's generally agreed that she was Jotnar... the most plausible theory to me seems to be that it is one of the Nine Undines, hence the story that he has nine mothers and that he hates/fears the ocean.

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        #4
        Re: Heimdall

        The Poetic Edda, tr. by Henry Adams Bellows, [1936], full text etext at sacred-texts.com


        Free pdf download of the Poetic Eddas, including Rigsthula.
        I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

        Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
        Clan of my Clan
        Kin of my Kin
        Blood of my Blood



        For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
        And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

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          #5
          Re: Heimdall

          Originally posted by ChainLightning View Post
          I'm not quite sure why we've not seen any replies, here, Keldorn. But so you know that people ARE looking



          To be totally honest, I don't know the best place to find out info about him.

          I saw a painting (or maybe it was just a drawing, I can't recall exactly) many years ago that was supposedly of him. (Why on earth do I keep thinking of Vallejo?!?) Then saw that Hollywierd film, Thor, and got a completely different view from that impression I'd previously had. Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you where I saw the 'illustration', either, but it was quite unlike anything that was shown in the movie... I mean, aside from a few basic details.

          This is majorly not my strong suit. Most days, I couldn't tell the difference between Ragnarok and a Sumble. Except that the Sumble might get to be a bit louder. Maybe even a bit more rowdy...
          Thanks for the reply. All told, I did enjoy the Hollywood version but I'm also well aware that Hollywood and accuracy are not always on speaking terms. So I'm not expecting a close match up.

          Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
          Generally, any of the major Asatru and Heathenry sources would be good places to start. The primary sources (the Edda, the Icelandic Sagas, some of the academic authors etc) are usually the first place that most Heathens (especially the reconstructionist kind) will point you, but those sources are very difficult to get through if you are only interested in one particular deity. So that's probably not what you are looking for here. It's presumed that Heimdall is also the character named 'Rig', and therefore the Rigsthula is usually attributed to being about him.

          Most of the sources that I would recommend are books, so it depends on whether you have a good library nearby or are interested in purchasing books as to whether my list would be useful or not.

          As far as websites go... I'm not Heathen, and so I don't frequent Heathen websites or groups. But the Northern Tradition folk have an online shrine to him here:


          Thanks for the link. I can work through the Eddas, though it may be a touch time consuming. It provides context which is always nice. Books, if I had money than I wouldn't mind spending a bit to learn more. As is, cash isn't readily available. If you have a list on hand then I can check the library easily enough. The local one isn't that big but it has borrowing agreements with other libraries in the region so I may find something.

          Originally posted by Rick View Post
          http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/index.htm

          Free pdf download of the Poetic Eddas, including Rigsthula.
          Thanks for the link! Once I conjure a bit more time, I'll look into the Eddas.

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            #6
            Re: Heimdall

            Originally posted by Keldorn View Post
            Thanks for the link. I can work through the Eddas, though it may be a touch time consuming. It provides context which is always nice. Books, if I had money than I wouldn't mind spending a bit to learn more. As is, cash isn't readily available. If you have a list on hand then I can check the library easily enough. The local one isn't that big but it has borrowing agreements with other libraries in the region so I may find something.
            For tertiary sources, pretty much anything by Kveldulf Gundarsson, but particularly 'Teutonic Magic' and the 'Our Troth' books. Freya Aswynn and Diana Paxson are also generally considered to be recommended authors, though they have their own take on a few things. I like Raven Kaldera and Galina Krasskova as a non-reconstructionist point of view to balance things out, but be aware they are controversial amongst Heathens and recons and may get you in trouble in those circles (also most of what they have to say is on the Northern Paganism and Northern Shamanism' websites).

            Secondary sources would be Hilda Ellis Davidson and Jesse L Byock. And others that I can't remember off the top of my head as I'm not at home for the next two weeks so can't access my bookshelf or my computer bookmarks. That's a pretty good start though.

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              #7
              Re: Heimdall

              If you're gunna get the Poetic Edda in a physical copy I'd recommend the one by Lee M. Hollander (can be found here from amazon)

              But as for personal experiences-for me, he's been kinda like an older brother looking out for a little sibling. Trying to make it so I learn how to look out for myself and not do stupid shit and when the bad stuff comes along, help give me a metaphorical shoulder to lean on. In regards to Loki though, I've never really noticed a serious dislike between the two...more just along the lines of "damnit Loki, why do you keep having to do stupid crap" irritation and sigh than hatred. Even in the eddas from what I remember the worst insult between the two basically boils down to "Loki, quit being drunk"..."Heimdallr, go back to doing your job".

              I've got some rather special memories of dreams in dealing with Heimdallr as a younger kid, and they clicked as I got older and started researching into the Norse paths to realizing just who it was, so Heimdallr's got a rather special place in my heart. He has a tendency to be stern if you're in a habit of doing really, REALLY dumb things-but he's a great one to go to if you're looking for guidance on gathering wisdom from your surroundings and such. Just....remember, he's really big on duty, honor, and oaths-so don't make promises you cant or don't intend to keep around him as he REALLY doesn't like that, and while I've held true to that myself, its always been kinda that feeling you get that you really don't wanna piss him off.
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                #8
                Re: Heimdall

                Originally posted by Yorin View Post
                In regards to Loki though, I've never really noticed a serious dislike between the two...more just along the lines of "damnit Loki, why do you keep having to do stupid crap" irritation and sigh than hatred. Even in the eddas from what I remember the worst insult between the two basically boils down to "Loki, quit being drunk"..."Heimdallr, go back to doing your job".
                Unless you count the Voluspa. Where they will, you know... kill each other at Ragnarok.

                I don't mean to second guess you. I have the utmost respect for UPG and personal experience with deities, and seeing as I have never worked with Heimdall I must defer to your experience with him. But from a desire to learn, I'm interested in your thoughts on the Ragnarok prophecy and how that plays into the relationship between Loki and Heimdall.

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                  #9
                  Re: Heimdall

                  Thanks Rae'ya, I'll have access to one of the local libraries tomorrow to check up on several of those names tomorrow (or I'll get impatient and try navigating their site in an hour or two). Why are Kaldera and Krasskova contraversial? I'm not overly worried about getting into hot water with any sect. I don't claim or intend to claim affilation with anyone so the annoyance of factions that I'm not joining isn't a pressing concern but it is nice to know what specific criticisms are being leveled at a source while I'm reading it.

                  Yorin thanks for the reccomendation and the experiences. The point regarding Heimdall and Loki is an interesting one.

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                    #10
                    Re: Heimdall

                    Originally posted by Keldorn View Post
                    Thanks Rae'ya, I'll have access to one of the local libraries tomorrow to check up on several of those names tomorrow (or I'll get impatient and try navigating their site in an hour or two). Why are Kaldera and Krasskova contraversial? I'm not overly worried about getting into hot water with any sect. I don't claim or intend to claim affilation with anyone so the annoyance of factions that I'm not joining isn't a pressing concern but it is nice to know what specific criticisms are being leveled at a source while I'm reading it.

                    Yorin thanks for the reccomendation and the experiences. The point regarding Heimdall and Loki is an interesting one.
                    The controversy is because reconstructionsists normally don't respect UPG much, and rely almost entirely on primary and secondary sources. The Northern Tradition folk rely as much on UPG as primary sources, and have thus come up with a few experiences that aren't entirely supported in the Lore. Krasskova is a bit more controversial because she claims the title 'Heathen', which rubs recon Heathens up the wrong way. Kaldera is overtly non-recon and divorces himself quite strongly from 'Heathen' or recon paths... but many traditionalists don't like him because he's also a shaman and spirit worker and incorporates some hoodoo techniques in his practice. Plus he's transsexual, kinky, pansexual and in a polyamorous relationship... which is pretty challenging for some people.

                    Personally, I'm NT myself, so I enjoy their work. I also happen to think that it's a good thing to have some balance. The three main Heathen and Asatru authors are loosely connected and very much Asatruar, so they kind of have the monopoly on the market, so to speak. I like to get different opinions from different places, and then form my own based on all of that. I'm one of those people who reads as much as I can on a subject, from as many different viewpoints as possible. But I'm wary of putting people new to the topic in hot water, so to speak. So I always name Kaldera and Krasskova but warn about the controversy. The last thing I'd want to do would cause someone new to the path to head into a Heathen recon forum and start raving about those authors, because that is likely to end in pain. I would get jumped on at those forums just for saying their names.... it's that bad in some places. So it's best to rave about NT folk away from the recons.

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                      #11
                      Re: Heimdall

                      Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                      Unless you count the Voluspa. Where they will, you know... kill each other at Ragnarok.

                      I don't mean to second guess you. I have the utmost respect for UPG and personal experience with deities, and seeing as I have never worked with Heimdall I must defer to your experience with him. But from a desire to learn, I'm interested in your thoughts on the Ragnarok prophecy and how that plays into the relationship between Loki and Heimdall.
                      From what I've read and experienced its more that he's duty bound do to whatever it takes to protect the realms, from forces both without and within. Its not something that he's seemingly overly happy with. He takes duty and promises VERY seriously, hence my comment about not making promises you're not prepared to keep, and if killing Loki for being (with lack of better phrasing at the moment cause I'm too tired to be eloquent) a raging jackass is what it takes to keep Asgard and the rest of the gods safe, then that's what he's going to have to do. Personally I'd love for the whole thing never to have to happen as (with experience from reading Tarot for many years now) the future is ever changing by the choices we all make-but hopefully I'll be long dead before I have to deal with that whole mess.
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                        #12
                        Re: Heimdall

                        Originally posted by Yorin View Post
                        From what I've read and experienced its more that he's duty bound do to whatever it takes to protect the realms, from forces both without and within. Its not something that he's seemingly overly happy with. He takes duty and promises VERY seriously, hence my comment about not making promises you're not prepared to keep, and if killing Loki for being (with lack of better phrasing at the moment cause I'm too tired to be eloquent) a raging jackass is what it takes to keep Asgard and the rest of the gods safe, then that's what he's going to have to do. Personally I'd love for the whole thing never to have to happen as (with experience from reading Tarot for many years now) the future is ever changing by the choices we all make-but hopefully I'll be long dead before I have to deal with that whole mess.
                        Makes sense. There are a number of Aesir who aren't all that enamoured of Loki, without hating his guts, so to speak lol.

                        It always interested me too how people focus on Tyr when it comes to honor and duty, and ignore the fact that Heimdall is also very much a part of that sphere. In some ways, Heimdall is more about honor and duty that Tyr is, just in different ways. It's also interesting the way that many Asatru tend to relegate Heimdall to the relative sidelines, perhaps because of lack of evidence of worship in anthropological sources. Yet Heimdall is apparently one of those who is most concerned with the wellbeing of the people of Midgardhr.

                        Out of interest, do you believe that the Rigsthula is about Heimdall? Some don't. I can't say that I've studied it closely enough to have made up my own mind. The Aesir are not my primary focus, and it's not the sort of question that I would ever bother the Nornir with.

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                          #13
                          Re: Heimdall

                          Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                          Makes sense. There are a number of Aesir who aren't all that enamoured of Loki, without hating his guts, so to speak lol.

                          It always interested me too how people focus on Tyr when it comes to honor and duty, and ignore the fact that Heimdall is also very much a part of that sphere. In some ways, Heimdall is more about honor and duty that Tyr is, just in different ways. It's also interesting the way that many Asatru tend to relegate Heimdall to the relative sidelines, perhaps because of lack of evidence of worship in anthropological sources. Yet Heimdall is apparently one of those who is most concerned with the wellbeing of the people of Midgardhr.

                          Out of interest, do you believe that the Rigsthula is about Heimdall? Some don't. I can't say that I've studied it closely enough to have made up my own mind. The Aesir are not my primary focus, and it's not the sort of question that I would ever bother the Nornir with.
                          Tyr to me has always seemed more along the lines of "warrior" and "wielder of justice" than honor/duty/guardian.... but the one experience I had with him, hes either a serious jerk all around when it comes to Midgardians or I just caught him on a really bad day so I tend to just say screw that and stay out of his way in general on the safe side.

                          And to be honest, I haven't either so I can't answer that question. I'm hoping to get a new copy of the eddas soon that does have that included. My old one was an uber hand-me-down that had a lot of stuff missing, or had fallen out, or was ripped and such :/
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                            #14
                            Re: Heimdall

                            Originally posted by Yorin View Post
                            Tyr to me has always seemed more along the lines of "warrior" and "wielder of justice" than honor/duty/guardian.... but the one experience I had with him, hes either a serious jerk all around when it comes to Midgardians or I just caught him on a really bad day so I tend to just say screw that and stay out of his way in general on the safe side.
                            Tyr strikes me as much more a 'do what needs to be done and reap the consequences' sort of honor rather than 'keep your word and do your duty' sort of honor. While Heimdall strikes me as painfully honorable to the point that he must be honest and by the book every time, regardless of circumstance. As we've both said... duty, honor and guardianship... and he takes those tasks very seriously. Tyr is a bit harsher, colder... he will break his word for the greater good but stand up and take the consequences of that, no matter what. Personally I think that speaks to his more ancient, frost thurs heritage. He sees further than honesty and transparency, and that puts him in the realm of a different kind of honor. Interestingly, even though we modernly tend to invoke Tyr for justice, it is actually Ullr who stands in Odhinn's stead when he is away and Forseti who is the official god of justice. I think Tyr has much better things to do, while Heimdall is supposedly very approachable if you don't belong to the Jotnar.

                            Ironically, I quite liked the way that Heimdall has been portrayed in the Marvel Thor films. My husband can attest to how I feel about the mythological innacuracies of the film in general (black haired warrior Sif, really?), but I did like Heimdall.

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                              #15
                              Re: Heimdall

                              Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                              Ironically, I quite liked the way that Heimdall has been portrayed in the Marvel Thor films. My husband can attest to how I feel about the mythological innacuracies of the film in general (black haired warrior Sif, really?), but I did like Heimdall.
                              Lol, yeah, that got me too to be honest. Overall I'm fairly able to separate the whole Marvel vs Religion thing, but Sif did kinda bug me. Though I did rather enjoy Heimdall in the movie as well.

                              But as to the whole "Tyr has better things to do" comment, it sounds about right and was the vibe I got from him as well only slightly angrier.
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