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    #1

    The Divinity of Christ

    So, for the longest time now I've been a very "Arian" Christian, that is I thought Jesus was not Divine. However, recently I've been having doubts about this.

    Thing is, its not a very logical thing, it just all of a sudden I started feeling as though I might be wrong about that. That Jesus might have really been in incarnation of God just suddenly started feeling far more right to me.

    Which, you know, this isn't exactly the greatest forum in the world for this sort of Christian Dilemma, but its not like I use any Christian forums. So I'll just awkwardly drop this thread here.

    Anyways, yeah, so I'm divinely confused *rimshot*.
    hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!
    Tags: christ, confusion, divinity, jesus, yhwh
    #2
    Re: The Divinity of Christ

    Congrats on stumbling back into one of the oldest debates of the Christian faith (s). Any details on what flavor of divinity since there's more options of available than human, prophet and the full blown Holy Trinity?
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #3
      Re: The Divinity of Christ

      ...How about we talk about some of these other options?

      Right now I'm king of thinking Jesus is an incarnation of just one aspect of God, "Logos", which is a very "Gospel of John" place to be. But I'm hardly set on anything.
      hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

      Comment

        #4
        Re: The Divinity of Christ

        I'll toss something up later tonight. I'm not a scholar of religion by any means but I've come across a couple distinct views and I have a good idea where to find them again.
        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


        Comment

          #5
          Re: The Divinity of Christ

          Awesome, I appreciate it.
          hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

          Comment

            #6
            Re: The Divinity of Christ

            I have always found Jesus inspiring with the love one another and other aspects of his story. The son of god aspect while I can't state absolutely if that is true or false,does cause me a bit of wonder. The god(old and new) gets a maiden pregnant is not a single event in myth or the history of religions. This is not a thread to "Debate" belief but to understand your feelings on the matter. Personally I feel if you feel and believe something,then it is a matter of your own conception and anchor of your "Faith"
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

            Comment

              #7
              Re: The Divinity of Christ

              When I was a Christian, technically I was a Trinitarian. The denomination I belonged to recognizes the Trinity as official doctrine...but I also come from a less conventional sort of family (even if they've gotten boring over the years). My grandmother was a fan of Edgar Cayce, and my grandfather (I think you'd have liked him, Malfick...not sure if the thread is around anymore, but he had some awesome sayings about his Christianity that I think you would appreciate) was raised in a Divine Science family (my other grandparents are also members of the UCC, but follow the Unity movement). With all that as background (which probably explains my very laid back views about Christianities)...

              When I was a Christian, I was of the opinion (from my grandmother's influence, and she could have argued it with scripture) that Jesus was Divine by virtue of being a "perfect" human being, in terms of actualization. A Christ, not the Christ...and that we all have the potential to be a Christ. Jesus just happened to be the first one (or...one of the first ones...or...the one we culturally recognize, depending on how you want to look at it). Basically, we are all Divine...just as Divine as Jesus, but not all of us can access it. My grandmother believed (I wasn't sure I had an opinion on this part) that through reincarnation and the accumulation of soul experiences, on could become Christ-like, and the "heaven" was the state of returning to/reuniting with God.
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
              sigpic

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                #8
                Re: The Divinity of Christ

                If you feel you've been wrong in your assumption of Jesus' divinity, I'd say go with the new feeling. And hey, if you need, there's always Yahweh you could ask.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: The Divinity of Christ

                  So, this is going to be very quick and dirty and mostly I'm just gonna mention a group, provide a brief description and exempting Trinitarian doctrine which I'm presuming you're familiar with I'll toss up a link. Partly because while I know of the divisions, I'm ill prepared to speak on them and partly because it's midnight.

                  Theories of Christ that I've come across where he is more than mortal:

                  Trinitarian: You and most of creation are familiar with it. I'm not re-hashing it. I think you might want to look over Christ's purpose according to East Orthodox sects but they're still Trinitarian. They just have some interesting twists. Actually, Thal, you might also be entertained by some East Orthodox views there.

                  Christ as manifestation: This is a Baha'i thing primarily. He's a manifestation of God sent to accomplish a specific purpose but he's not the only one.
                  Page not found – Baha'is of the United States
                  http://www.bahai.us/2012/04/06/how-bahais-view-christ/

                  has an overview along with a very brief mention of other beings considered manifestations. One might argue that Gnostics consider him a manifestation but it's not a case I'm willing to make atm and they treat him a bit different than the Baha'i.

                  Christ as first creation: Here Christ is neither God nor man. He was God's first creation and played a number of roles before coming to earth to play the role of messiah.
                  This seems to be a tenet for Jehovah's Witnesses and the link I have explaining it is pretty short on detail, watchtower article. There used to be a better one but the link I had on hand is outdated.

                  The following involves wiki data:

                  Right then, above involves viewpoints I've seen in modern faiths but wiki has been kind enough to provide some mention of ancient debates over his nature. So remembering that these links are wiki links,

                  you might drop by

                  Christology

                  and the

                  The First Council of Ephesus

                  They should provide terms for looking further into some of the old arguments regarding Christ's nature.
                  life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                  Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                  "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                  John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                  "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                  Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: The Divinity of Christ

                    It'll take me a bit to get through all those articles, thank you MO, but if anyone else has anything to add in the meantime go for it.

                    I'm used to being fairly analytical about Christianity, going by my feelings is still a bit odd for me, but you folks make interesting points.
                    hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: The Divinity of Christ

                      I believe Jesus was the full blown God in human flesh.
                      I'll avoid the technical stuff you can find on the net and I'll instead make a few out there observations that everyone here might relate to.

                      When Jesus was heading toward Jerusalem for the last time, he took his disciples on a detour. In fact he turned around mid journey and headed in the opposite direction of their final destination - it was way out of their way.

                      Where did they go? To the base of Mt Hermon, and to the entrance of a cave called the gates of Hades (gates of hell). There he asked Simon the question "Who do you think I am?"

                      Peter / Simon replied "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." and Jesus answered by giving Simon his new name Peter (Greek for rock) and stating on this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

                      A three day diversion just for dramatic effect is highly unlikely. However, Mt Hermon was where the watchers descended and began the assault on the human race through hybridisation (the Nephilim). Mt Hermon is an extremely important location on earth (connected to Stonehenge and mystery hill in Salem but that's for another discussion).

                      Did this convince me that Jesus was God? Not really but it reinforced my position. The fact that I can drive out demons from a person without any rituals; just using the authority I have been granted through the blood of the living Christ tells me that there is great power there.

                      If anyone here has made the mistake of sending a demon after a truly born again Christian knows that Jesus is far more than some bearded wall flower that the media likes to make fun of.

                      If anyone here has gone after a coven member who has left and sought sanctuary with a true Christian knows the authority over the angelic host Jesus has (I'm taking warrior angels, not little cupids with harps).

                      For me there is ample evidence that Jesus is at the very least the highest ranking offensive force in heaven - by a long way.

                      But is he God? There is a big difference.
                      God exists outside of time (not just immortal), God is everywhere, and God can do anything. Jesus made a statement at some point, stating that before Abraham was born, I am. He himself claimed Godship. The last guy to do that (and he was the highest ranking angel at the time) got his ass kicked out of heaven by Michael and his army. Jesus died, and spent a few days rubbing it in, before returning to life and very publicly ascending to heaven.

                      That's enough to convince me that Jesus Christ was indeed God. There are other reasons too but this is getting a bit long...

                      I hope this helps a bit and isn't too confusing.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: The Divinity of Christ

                        Are you looking for different opinions about the divinity of Christ, or do you want to hear supporting arguments for the divinity of Christ? Both can be mentioned here
                        [4:82]

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                          #13
                          Re: The Divinity of Christ

                          Originally posted by Dumuzi View Post
                          Are you looking for different opinions about the divinity of Christ, or do you want to hear supporting arguments for the divinity of Christ? Both can be mentioned here
                          Both of those things !
                          hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: The Divinity of Christ

                            Originally posted by Malflick View Post
                            Both of those things !

                            If you haven't already, you might be interested in looking into the writings of Origen (or at least, what little we know of them)...
                            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                            sigpic

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: The Divinity of Christ

                              Opinion, since it was asked -

                              JC was (assuming he existed) no more divine than any other human.

                              And no less.

                              If God sperm carries different DNA, JC wasn't human.
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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