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    #16
    Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

    Where do you guys place books like the Aeneid and Metamorphoses? Do you regard them as fact? Or symbolism? Or just good fiction?
    "Wealth is as swift | as a winking eye
    Of friends the falsest it is."

    Havamal, 74

    "The wolf that lies idle | shall win little meat,
    Or the sleeping man success."

    Havamal, 58

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      #17
      Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

      Hey there, I hope you don't mind me jumping in - this section doesn't seem too active, and I hate leaving questions unanswered

      Originally posted by ConnollyCelt View Post
      Where do you guys place books like the Aeneid and Metamorphoses? Do you regard them as fact? Or symbolism? Or just good fiction?
      I generally regard books like those as interesting fiction. There is some symbolism in them, especially in the Aeneid, like things such as how to correctly offer to the Roman pantheon and the importance of family and one's gods. But the epic is rampant with Augustan-era patriotism (or anti-patriotism, depending on the tint of your glasses).

      There is something called the sortes Vergilianae, which is basically a method of divination in which one lets a work of Virgil (the author of the Aeneid) fall open, close their eyes, and move their finger around on the page until they feel like they have hit the proper area. Apparently this helps with telling the individual what they need to know, but I haven't had any luck with it so far (granted, I've only tried it once or twice).

      The Metamorphoses are basically Greek myths remade for a Roman audience, with few actual Roman myths tossed in. Like the Aeneid, the gods have Roman names, but very Greek attributes. So I don't take them too seriously.
      Last edited by Guest; 19 May 2012, 19:48. Reason: accidentally a word

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        #18
        Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

        Originally posted by Iulla View Post
        Hey there, I hope you don't mind me jumping in - this section doesn't seem too active, and I hate leaving questions unanswered
        Unfortunately, it is not...

        so thank you so very much, and feel free to jump in all you like!
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
        sigpic

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          #19
          Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

          Originally posted by Iulla View Post
          Hey there, I hope you don't mind me jumping in - this section doesn't seem too active, and I hate leaving questions unanswered



          I generally regard books like those as interesting fiction. There is some symbolism in them, especially in the Aeneid, like things such as how to correctly offer to the Roman pantheon and the importance of family and one's gods. But the epic is rampant with Augustan-era patriotism (or anti-patriotism, depending on the tint of your glasses).

          There is something called the sortes Vergilianae, which is basically a method of divination in which one lets a work of Virgil (the author of the Aeneid) fall open, close their eyes, and move their finger around on the page until they feel like they have hit the proper area. Apparently this helps with telling the individual what they need to know, but I haven't had any luck with it so far (granted, I've only tried it once or twice).

          The Metamorphoses are basically Greek myths remade for a Roman audience, with few actual Roman myths tossed in. Like the Aeneid, the gods have Roman names, but very Greek attributes. So I don't take them too seriously.
          Thank you! That's helped a lot.
          "Wealth is as swift | as a winking eye
          Of friends the falsest it is."

          Havamal, 74

          "The wolf that lies idle | shall win little meat,
          Or the sleeping man success."

          Havamal, 58

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

            Originally posted by ConnollyCelt View Post
            Thank you! That's helped a lot.
            Awesome, I'm glad to hear that!

            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
            Unfortunately, it is not...
            so thank you so very much, and feel free to jump in all you like!
            Hahaha wonderful; I will be sure to!

            Originally posted by Catdemon-Ninja View Post
            I myself am also curious: what are some traditional offerings for Roman reconstruction? Hellenists offer water, wine, honey, bread, and milk as traditional offerings.
            For the most part, it seems that Roman offerings are the same as Greek. I have offered everything that you listed, and added more modern things like chocolate and a paper crane as a votive offering haha. Olive oil and coins are also things that I've offered. It all depends on the deity, too; for example, Venus doesn't seem to like Sugar Cookie scented oil (I use an oil burner because of allergies to incense), but Mercurius (Mercury) does.

            Also, the way in which Roman recons offer to the gods is a bit different than Hellenic recons.

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              #21
              Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

              I know that "adopting" other deities happened in ancient Rome, and the few Roman recons I know are fine (or participate) in that practice with non-Roman deities that were worshiped historically, and one of them even worships a few deities that don't have a historic cult--though she sticks to the pantheon of a culture that had direct contact with Rome.

              How much is that the norm? Is worshiping outside of those known "adopted" deities (or pantheons) frowned upon, or (since we do live in an increasingly global world) is there room for someone to worship a deity that is meaningful to them that was not known in ancient Rome?
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
              sigpic

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                #22
                Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

                Yep, that definitely happened in ancient Rome. The Romans were crazy about syncretism, hahaha.

                Nowadays, I think it can go both ways, and it really depends on the person. You have the more staunch recons who would have a heart attack if they were to even think about worshiping deities outside of their main pantheon, and then you have those recons who are more than happy to incorporate other deities. And then you have recons from all eras of Roman history, from Archaic to the Republic to the Empire, so the deities that are worshiped may correspond to the time.

                I've noticed that Gallo-Roman Reconstructionism is a rising trend, and so is Greco-Roman. You might see someone very comfortable with worshiping Sulis-Minerva or Mars Alator. Way back in ancient Rome it would not have been uncommon by any means for other deities like the Egyptian Isis, for example, to be worshiped in one's own pantheon, and I've heard of people doing this today as well.

                A really popular modern recon group is Nova Roma. Now, they aren't strictly for the reconstruction of Roman religion, but they do incorporate it. They have colleges for the traditional Roman deities (Iuppiter, Mars, Minerva, etc.), and they treat "foreign" cults like the Cult of Isis and the Mithraic Mysteries as valid paths, but ones outside the traditional Religio. But for things that the Romans would not have practiced, like Asatru or Wicca, they do not allow.

                I hope that answered your question; I tried not to make this too long of a post

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                  #23
                  Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

                  Q1: What spiritual/immortal beings do you consider as evil and not worthy of worship?
                  Q2: When offering food to the gods, does the food actually go away or do you just throw is away? I am asking this because I have seen my mother (who is Catholic, and I'm not saying that all Catholics do this) offer food to our deceased grandmother via putting food in front of a picture of her. I would just like to understand how the offering of food and such actually works.
                  Thanks in advance!
                  "Rivers, ponds, lakes and streams - they all have different names, but they all contain water. Just as religions do - they all contain truths."
                  -Muhammad Ali

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                    #24
                    Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

                    Hi Curious! I'll answer your questions one at a time :]

                    Q1: There really aren't any deities or spirits in Roman Reconstructionism that are considered evil and not worthy of worship. In fact, the only ones that I can think of are called the Lemures and/or the Larvae (there's some debate as to if they are the same type of spirit) : those are thought to be rather malevolent spirits of the dead, and there's a cleansing festival each year to get rid of them.

                    Not even the deities associated with the underworld are "evil": they should be approached with a healthy dose of respect, like the other deities, but they've gotten a bad rap for really no reason.

                    Q2: I have to physically dispose of the food: the only reasons that food or liquid might go away on their own is if your house-animals eat it up or you leave it out for so long that the liquid dries up ;]

                    When you give an offering (or at least, this is how I see it), it's not so that the deity or spirit in question can swoop down and physically grab it. It's more of the act of offering that's the important part, but it also lets them take some of the essence of the offering. It's kind of like a..."I'm giving something to you, so will you please help me out in return?" sort of thing.

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                      #25
                      Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

                      Originally posted by Iulla View Post
                      Hi Curious! I'll answer your questions one at a time :]

                      Q2: I have to physically dispose of the food: the only reasons that food or liquid might go away on their own is if your house-animals eat it up or you leave it out for so long that the liquid dries up ;]

                      When you give an offering (or at least, this is how I see it), it's not so that the deity or spirit in question can swoop down and physically grab it. It's more of the act of offering that's the important part, but it also lets them take some of the essence of the offering. It's kind of like a..."I'm giving something to you, so will you please help me out in return?" sort of thing.
                      I might have missed this, as I've only read this page, but...

                      Why don't you eat the food after you offer it, rather than letting it go to waste? If the intent is all that matters, then the deity or spirit in question won't think you're harming the pax deorum by consuming the offering afterwards, right?


                      Mostly art.

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                        #26
                        Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

                        Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
                        I might have missed this, as I've only read this page, but...

                        Why don't you eat the food after you offer it, rather than letting it go to waste? If the intent is all that matters, then the deity or spirit in question won't think you're harming the pax deorum by consuming the offering afterwards, right?
                        Oops! I guess I didn't make that too clear; sorry :[

                        I do eat the food: at least some of it, anyway. It's kind of like...sharing a meal. As for the left over food, I'll either put the rest outside for animals to eat, or, because I live in an apartment in the middle of the city and nature isn't too close, I'll toss it or run it down the sink. What I was getting at is that it doesn't just go away on its own through divine intervention ;]

                        I don't let it sit on the lararium for more than a couple of hours, because of sanitary reasons: you wouldn't leave perishable food or liquid sitting out for hours normally, right?

                        The only time that I don't consume the food is if I'm offering to a chthonic deity. That's considered polluted, and should be burned or buried.

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                          #27
                          Re: Ask a Roman Reconstructionist!

                          Originally posted by Iulla View Post
                          Oops! I guess I didn't make that too clear; sorry :[

                          I do eat the food: at least some of it, anyway. It's kind of like...sharing a meal. As for the left over food, I'll either put the rest outside for animals to eat, or, because I live in an apartment in the middle of the city and nature isn't too close, I'll toss it or run it down the sink. What I was getting at is that it doesn't just go away on its own through divine intervention ;]

                          I don't let it sit on the lararium for more than a couple of hours, because of sanitary reasons: you wouldn't leave perishable food or liquid sitting out for hours normally, right?

                          The only time that I don't consume the food is if I'm offering to a chthonic deity. That's considered polluted, and should be burned or buried.
                          Ah, thanks for clarifying. What is a chthonic deity? And why do you make offerings to them?


                          Mostly art.

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