My past and reasons being here.

[Medusa]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

LaVeyan Satanist practice rituals with full knowledge it's all in the mind. That's the clearest answer that people won't like. But it's the truth. It's the same with most magic. Especially using the Necronomicon. It's like dark magic 101 for the newbie 'dark occultist'. It's bunk. It's used by people who are extremely weak and need to find some control over a life they seem to have no control of.

This problem he has is either an illness or he needs some serious therapy.

I'm sorry to be so blunt. But it's for losers. Everyone who is worth their weight in real occult knowledge is doing things you cannot find in any library.


And yes. I actually do have those kind of friends. This is bunk.

[shebani]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

I agree that magic is science that we dont' understand yet. But otherwise, where did he say he got the book?

[Rowanwood]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

Of course we could all be wrong and it's something else entirely but one would assume seeing how I am the only one who's witnessed it, I would naturally have a frame of reference. So if you did what he did, and if magic or some sort of spiritual realization won't help what will? And you said you're an atheist and that you don't believe it? If you performed hexes, doesn't that mean you believe in it by default? I'm confused.

Anyway staying away from him isn't going to stop him. He's not attempting to do it, he already has. I've looked up this Necromantic Ritual Book and it's a very strange thing. It's supposed to teach people about "Death Energy" and it requires some illegal activities, like sleeping with a corpse and kissing one. It involves Azrael the Angel of Death, too. Also it involves golems but I'm not sure about that yet. I don't think he's been with any dead bodies but knowing that he has a book that has that kind of stuff seriously disturbs me.

Well, consider this. If I told you I saw a unicorn farting a rainbow, would you believe me? Especially if I said "well, no one else has ever seen it but me because my cousin is a good witch from Oz." Because honestly, that what this sounds like.

It's nonsense hocus-pocus. I'm sorry, but that's the complete and honest fact of the matter from where I stand.

It doesn't mean your brother isn't dangerous. Anyone who wants to control other people and asks you to lie is clearly dangerous. Either get away from him or don't, but don't expect that we will suddenly have a magical potion you can make with eye of newt to solve this problem.

A lot of us have gone through this business already. Mystical ancient spells and all, magical books and super powers. But I have never seen any proof of anything other than hysteria and drug use and delusions of grandeur. Casting a curse makes you feel powerful, especially if you think you have a handle on some real magic. But really, if someone has a real handle on real necromancy...you don't think they would have the book for sale on Amazon.com, do you? Because you can buy the "Necromantic Ritual Book" on Amazon.

[Alienist]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

Well, consider this. If I told you I saw a unicorn farting a rainbow, would you believe me? Especially if I said "well, no one else has ever seen it but me because my cousin is a good witch from Oz." Because honestly, that what this sounds like.

It's nonsense hocus-pocus. I'm sorry, but that's the complete and honest fact of the matter from where I stand.

It doesn't mean your brother isn't dangerous. Anyone who wants to control other people and asks you to lie is clearly dangerous. Either get away from him or don't, but don't expect that we will suddenly have a magical potion you can make with eye of newt to solve this problem.

A lot of us have gone through this business already. Mystical ancient spells and all, magical books and super powers. But I have never seen any proof of anything other than hysteria and drug use and delusions of grandeur. Casting a curse makes you feel powerful, especially if you think you have a handle on some real magic. But really, if someone has a real handle on real necromancy...you don't think they would have the book for sale on Amazon.com, do you? Because you can buy the "Necromantic Ritual Book" on Amazon.

It isn't necessary to exaggerate. You've also proved my point. You never saw something like that, so therefore it doesn't exist right? I don't just try to dismiss thing just because I've never seen it before. It also depends on what you mean by "real necromancy" There's different levels for one thing. I'm not saying he has books that make his power equal with Voldemort or something absurd like that I already know it can be bought on sites? So what? That doesn't make it less credible just because it can be bought somewhere. If that was the case, about all of the magic books imaginable aren't credible because it can be bought. I wasn't speaking of an ancient book no one in this entire planet has ever seen before. It kind of makes you wonder why people cast spells or look up stuff like this, if it's all hogwash? Why would they attempt something like that? I still haven't heard anyone answer that question as to why anyone would resort to sigils, books and spells if all they need are drugs and psychological techniques. I'm not asking for a magic potion or anything really. All I want is advice.

[Rowanwood]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

I'm not asking for a magic potion or anything really. All I want is advice.

And we've given it to you. And without hyperbole, the point doesn't seem to be getting across. I say this with utmost sincerity -- I get it. I do. I understand how easy it is to get caught up in this. The fear, the possibility this stuff can be real, the power structure between you and your older sibling...I get it. But I also know that extreme claims tend to be just that, claims with no basis in fact.

You want advice here is it.

Here's the tl;dr of all the replies to you in the thread. We think he's LYING to you. Don't let him.

[Medusa]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

To answer your question why people use magic instead of drugs? Because it makes you feel powerful when you are in a situation where you have lost your power. Some do choose drugs. Some choose magic. Others use their own self to get through shit.

You have asked for advice. We have given you advice. You don't seem to like any of it, other than 'it's magic!'. Stop making people want to answer you in the way you want. It's not going to happen.

[Alienist]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

To answer your question why people use magic instead of drugs? Because it makes you feel powerful when you are in a situation where you have lost your power. Some do choose drugs. Some choose magic. Others use their own self to get through shit.

You have asked for advice. We have given you advice. You don't seem to like any of it, other than 'it's magic!'. Stop making people want to answer you in the way you want. It's not going to happen.

I'm not making anyone answer anything for me, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm just trying to get an understanding of this situation alright? It's not that I dislike any advice. A lot of it is sound. I just didn't have certain answers to certain questions, ok? Forgive me if I just seem tense for refraining from speaking about this when it involves my own flesh and blood and there's nothing I can do to help him or stop what he's doing, other than just run away from him and don't listen to him. I know I shouldn't listen to him and I should stay away from him but that's easier said than done, don't you think? I kind of figured what he showed me was real and it wasn't just some elaborate prank in order to get me to believe in things that don't exist. I figured as intelligent as he is, it wouldn't make sense for him to resort to things like this when there are other alternatives, such as drugs and such. It would kind of seem like a waste of money buying magic that doesn't work, right? All I wanted was some answers that's all, though. I'm not dismissing anyone's advice really. I'm just trying to get a better perspective on things.

[thalassa]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

IMO (and this isn't going to be gentle):Magic cannot make anyone do anything that isn't already present within them, and that the don't consciously or subconsciously consent to. Your brother is gullible and deluded at best, or a liar and a manipulator at worst...and you are enabling his behavior. Someone that self absorbed is incapable of doing real magic, for good or for ill.

[Medusa]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

I realize you are in a very stressful and emotional situation. I have compassion for that. You are at a loss as what to do. Your brother needs to see a mental professional. I always off this for 2 reasons. One, is that if there is a real mental issue, then seeing a professional will help. 2, if it's not mental, then you need to at least rule this out before you continue on to another course of action.

There is no other way to deal with this. There is no magic involved in how to deal with your brother. You must first come to understand that. There is no magic here to help him.

You also seem to be under some serious confusion about magic in general. Understanding why magic is used is not going to help your brother. Understanding why people spend money on magic books and they don't work is not going to help your brother. Honey, you are all over the place with this.


Try to gather people that will help you with this. Help me seek some outside professional help.
Your brother needs help. Stop procrastinating and sitting here in a puddle of fear unable to do anything except ask 'why, why, why?'

[Alienist]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

IMO (and this isn't going to be gentle):Magic cannot make anyone do anything that isn't already present within them, and that the don't consciously or subconsciously consent to. Your brother is gullible and deluded at best, or a liar and a manipulator at worst...and you are enabling his behavior. Someone that self absorbed is incapable of doing real magic, for good or for ill.

He's both. He has lied and manipulated but also enlightened me on a few things because he has taught me some things that helped me out. He is deluded in a sense that he believes what he's doing is right or is following the right path. But he's going to lie and manipulate whether I enable it or not. It doesn't matter. I'm not sure how being self absorbed has anything to do with the inability of practicing magic, but I wouldn't know anyway because I don't practice it

[Rowanwood]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

He's both. He has lied and manipulated but also enlightened me on a few things because he has taught me some things that helped me out. He is deluded in a sense that he believes what he's doing is right or is following the right path. But he's going to lie and manipulate whether I enable it or not. It doesn't matter. I'm not sure how being self absorbed has anything to do with the inability of practicing magic, but I wouldn't know anyway because I don't practice it

You can't stop him. You don't know if what he's doing is real. He's scaring you.


What about talking to your parents?

[Alienist]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

I realize you are in a very stressful and emotional situation. I have compassion for that. You are at a loss as what to do. Your brother needs to see a mental professional. I always off this for 2 reasons. One, is that if there is a real mental issue, then seeing a professional will help. 2, if it's not mental, then you need to at least rule this out before you continue on to another course of action.

There is no other way to deal with this. There is no magic involved in how to deal with your brother. You must first come to understand that. There is no magic here to help him.

You also seem to be under some serious confusion about magic in general. Understanding why magic is used is not going to help your brother. Understanding why people spend money on magic books and they don't work is not going to help your brother. Honey, you are all over the place with this.


Try to gather people that will help you with this. Help me seek some outside professional help.
Your brother needs help. Stop procrastinating and sitting here in a puddle of fear unable to do anything except ask 'why, why, why?'

I can't just up and send him for professional help unfortunately. I did consider that situation. He has seen professional help, although he's never talked to them for long periods of time which I think is part of the problem. It also costs money, something I unfortunately don't have. I figured there wouldn't be magic to help him, but magic to help me. Right now I've talked to other people and have received some advice from others at least through PMs. Some are saying to imagine shields or amulets of some kind, others are saying that what he's doing isn't real and that he needs help. It's just difficult to choose what to do that's all. I wish I had some answers, but he's so damn secretive with everything, I can't help him. I honestly can't believe how stupid I was by wasting a year and a half of my life refraining from talking about this when I should have talked about this sooner. It was my fault and now I have no way of helping him at the moment. He does need help. I really wish he'd talk to some sort of psychologist or something, other than the other alternative of him going to a hospital, they pop you with pills and then send you on your way home. If he could actually understand this. I feel so damn helpless. It seems all I can do is stay watch on the sidelines as his mind and soul is being slowly destroyed.

You can't stop him. You don't know if what he's doing is real. He's scaring you.


What about talking to your parents?'

He has scared me for some time and still does. As for my parents, my dad is dead and my mom disbelieves it. She is somewhat spiritual and believes in afterlives but she doesn't pay much attention to his hobbies but then she doesn't know everything that he does so maybe she'll have a better understanding if she does. She still acknowledges his behavior and knows he's mentally ill. My other brother couldn't care less and it's harsh to say, but I don't like my other brother since he's sick and mentally ill too, but that's another story. Unlike my other brother he doesn't practice magic, but I worry about him sometimes, too. My mom I think realizes my brothers mental illnesses as well as my other brother's but she doesn't want to admit it, so she does nothing to stop it. I hardly have much support and feel very alone.

[Rowanwood]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

I hardly have much support and feel very alone.

THIS is what you need to address. You need to let your brother live his life or hurt himself as he sees fit. I know you want to help, but there is obviously nothing you can do for him.

There are a lot of free resources for mental health care, and I feel YOU should take advantage of them. You can see there is a problem, and its not magical.

http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/finding-therapy

There's nothing wrong with learning meditations and spells for protection and peace within yourself. That's never a bad thing unless you use it as a way to avoid your real problems. If you believe those things can help you, and you feel the inclination to learn them, then I say go ahead. But please, seek some help because its not likely magic is going to help either of you.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

.. I kind of figured what he showed me was real and it wasn't just some elaborate prank in order to get me to believe in things that don't exist. I figured as intelligent as he is, it wouldn't make sense for him to resort to things like this when there are other alternatives, such as drugs and such. It would kind of seem like a waste of money buying magic that doesn't work, right? All I wanted was some answers that's all, though. I'm not dismissing anyone's advice really. I'm just trying to get a better perspective on things.

I think the thing being missed here is the most basic of all human interaction. There is reality before you, there is what you see, there is what you think you've seen and there is the creation that is created when you try to explain what you've seen and fill in the pieces. Your claiming something that only you have seen yet what aspect of it are you trying to convey? Like a cop at a traffic scene gathering accounts of the accident your story does not match what the other's have seen or witnessed. Your insistent that because your the one who saw something that no one else has any similar type exposure to contrast and / or compare your words to.

What makes it worse in my opinion is that it seem's your not willing to accept that what you saw is not what your mind translated it as. You potentially went there expecting some magical event and that is what you got whether it actually occurred or your own mind created it as such.

- - - Updated - - -

I can't speak for anyone else but your responses almost seem knee jerk at many points. A statement is made or a condition suggested and then suddenly your response is that your brother(s) have shown this or that. Then when council is suggested, your brother has gone through such but the answer is he didn't go for long. Your asking for what appears is a means to either aid him or defend you, yet i'm not sure your willing to commit to any such detailed plan that would be required to do either.

Your an outsider looking in and haven't taken the time to dissect what your actually saw. You're claiming a ritual / ceremony was done with specific results. Ok, what was done? The way it's being presented is almost as if your expecting us to accept the story of Eve and the Apple and giving it to Adam. The apple reflective of the intent and action yet it ignores the motive behind or ahead of both intent and action. We assume Eve took the apple for enlightenment and self revelation so we can assume or expect what the results would be.

Illusion is what appears to be occurring in a lot of your revelations. No structure given to say if it matches any school. No words other than an assumption its a dead language being spoken. A heavy reliance upon assumption that something will occur then syncronicity in trying to identify that something actually did. A lot of us can make people leave when we desire they do so and its not some magical feat. A lot of us can make people do things because of power of will and presence, but that's not magic either its all personality and presence.

If your going to fear something you first have to identify what it is and why. If your going to research something you've seen you really have to analyze what it was you witnessed and try to identify the active parts, the way it made you feel and perhaps most important to my perception is an internal analysis of what you figured would happen and what you though would happen. When you identify what you expected, what you witnessed and what your analysis of your expectations are you can better identify what did occur. Then I think you'd get the answers your looking for or a discussion that can address form and format which might illuminate what you think you saw and how it is being played out.

Or I could equally be wrong on all of it and none of this will matter. But that is the power of assumption and suggestion when analyzing any occultish event.

[Rae'ya]

Re: My past and reasons being here.

Seeing as you don't seem to be accepting the advice and support of the others, let me try a different tack. I'm going to break this down into individual statements and see if we can get somewhere with that.

And seeing as you have disregarded the advice of some of the others because they are atheist or non-believers or whatever, let me remind you of MY beliefs in some simple terms... I am a hard-polytheist animist. I believe that gods exist. I believe that spirits exist. I believe that there are planes of existence and worlds other than this. I believe in magick. I believe in psycho-drama. I am also a Demonolator. I have communicated and worked with Demons. My husband is a Satanist. He has communicated and worked with Satan. I am not altruistic. I have cursed. I have broken curses. I am well aquainted with execration magick. Some people would claim that what I do is 'black magick' or at least 'dark magick' (both of which are in inverted commas because they don't exist and are ridiculous terms). I have read books of magick by authors such as Crowley and LaVey. I have read ancient grimoires full of sigils and Demonic symbols and incantations in ancient languages.

I am telling you this so that you understand that I know a little something about books of magick, ceremonial magick, Demons, Sumerian entities and so called 'dark magick'. I am telling you this so that you have absolutely no excuse to disregard my words based on some misguided concept that I don't understand or don't believe you.

The main reason I came on this site was to receive some sort of spiritual help. It involved my brother and his problems. His practice in magic. I want to finally tell everyone the main reason why I hesitated. This is NOT made up. This is true I am member on this site for a reason. I've been a member of this site for a while but I was so held back in fear, I refrained from speaking about it. Please, I implore you to read all of this. I know it's long, but it IS important.

Okay, I believe you. But repeating this sort of thing over and over is not going to make people believe you any more. It's likely to make people take it LESS seriously, ironically enough.

Everyone here believes in magick. But do you know HOW magick works? Most of it works via OUR OWN MINDS. The mind is an incredibly complex and amazing thing. Some magick is about influencing the energies around us, but most of it is about triggering changes within our minds and harnessing those changes to create a different reality.

An extension of that is that you can also use 'magick' to trigger changes within someone else's mind... BUT, when you do this you aren't doing anything mystical... you are using certain triggers and psychological techniques to manipulate the other person. Have you ever researched NLP (neuro-linguistic-programming)? This sort of 'magick' is the same as NLP. It's also the same as how child molesters manipulate their prey. And it's related to conditions such as Stockholm's syndrome and battered wife syndrome. The mind does things without our conscious permission sometimes, and the reality is that a person skilled in manipulation and emotional abuse can do some pretty amazing and messed up shit to another person's mind.

People do this ALL THE TIME. It's actually not magick at all... but unfortunately there are some people who do magick AND this sort of manipulation, which makes it seem like magick. So sometimes you have to try and sift through what part of a person's actions are magick, and what part of them are something else.

That's what I'm going to try to facilitate here. So let's have a look at what your brother has been doing...

Over 10 years ago, my brother obtained a book of magic. I am not entirely sure where he got it whether it was from a library or someone else but he never told me.

Books of magick are just books. That's the first thing you need to learn here. Whatever your brother obtained... it was a book. Now you can obviously learn a lot of stuff from books... you can pick up new skills, extend your knowledge and change your opinions about things just from reading one book. But books don't have magickal powers. They don't confer upon their readers anything mystical. They don't corrupt minds. They don't cause madness. They don't turn an otherwise normal and altruistic person into an evil black magick sorcerer. That's not how books work.

The only way I found out was through my father. My father has passed away not so long ago, and I miss him dearly. One of the last things he told me was something about my brother. I was talking to my dad about my brother since my brother had a host of problems, with drugs, the law ect. in the past and my dad speculated that maybe his brain had been corrupted from what he read in that book.

So your father thought that his beloved son was corrupted by what he read in the book. Of course he did. He was a father who loved his son and wanted to think the best of him. I think you will find that every parent thinks something similar of their troubled and miscreant child. THere is always an external reason that their baby turned out so 'bad'.

The unfortunate reality is that people are people, and despite our best efforts, sometimes our children turn out troubled and miscreant. Sometimes they get into drugs and illegal activities ON THEIR OWN.

You have to look at this objectively... your brother had problems with drugs and the law. Your father blames this on the book of magick. You dearly love and respected your late father, so you believe what he told you. That's natural. Unfortunately it's not objective. It's highly unlikely that the book corrupted your brother. It's more likely that your brother picked up the book because it appealed to his innate personality. It's likely that your brother had problems with drugs and the law because of his innate personality.

I expressed disbelief as I said that mere words on text and speaking a language that hasn't been spoken for thousands of years wouldn't effect his mind or make magic by doing spells or rituals. My dad told me that words are power and one shouldn't simply judge things as they appear. He explained my brother obtained the book. My brother did rituals but the more he did it, the more it hurt him. The magic he was using caused him to eventually hear voices, see things, and have nightmares. My brother talked about my dad about this and my dad realized the seriousness of the situation. My brother and my dad went onto barren land in the middle of nowhere and buried the book after shortly doing a small ritual in an attempt to purify my brother, I suppose. Why my brother couldn't simply return the book or burn it or throw it away, I don't know, but for whatever reason he had to do this.

Words only have the power that our minds give them. So yes, for some people, words can trigger subconscious changes of the mind. For others... no.

Rituals have the exact same power, for the most part.

Now it actually is theoretically possible to perform a ritual out of a book, invoke or attract a malicious entity and have some drastic mental changes happen as a consequence. BUT... this is INCREDIBLY RARE. If this happened, there would be a LOT of people running around having had this happen to them. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN TO DABBLERS. I will repeat that... this does not happen to dabblers.

Reading ONE book makes you a Dabbler.

You said this was ten years ago? So your brother would have been in his late teens or early twenties at the time? Did your brother approach your dad or did your dad approach your brother for them to have this discussion? It's likely that your dad found out and confronted your brother... which put your brother on the defensive. Blaming his troubles on the book would have been a very convenient little way to absolve himself of blame and maintain your father's love. No one likes to admit that they have problems. And your father would have handed him a neat little package of 'it was the book's fault, I'm really a good person and none of this is my fault'.

My dad never practiced magic, at least I don't think he did, but he believed it to probably be real due to the fact that my brother was going through hell my reading this book. I wasn't sure if the book was corrupt and had rituals that messed up his mind the more he did it, or he improperly performed a ritual and it backfired. Whatever the case, he stopped doing magic and kept this secret to himself as well as my dad and mom.

Was your dad Christian? I ask because his words and reactions sound to me a VERY common Christian reaction to anything magickal. They beleive that it can corrupt an otherwise 'good' person. Plus, a big part of ritual is the psycho-drama behind it. So the ritual that your dad did was a nice little psycho-drama ritual to help destroy your brothers demons.

Unfortunately, it is far more likely that your brother's problems stem from HIM. It's much more likely that he was attracted to the book because of his problems, not the other way around. Rituals just don't corrupt people in the way that you are describing... that is a misconception that is perpetuated by movies and anti-magick fearmongering. It just doesn't work that way.

It was only a year and a half ago that my brother about my magic. He told me that he always had in an interest in the occult, myths, ect, but he never admitted to me that he practiced magic until then. He is always a very secretive person, and hardly talks about his past. He doesn't talk about it because he feels no one can help him or that he'll appear to be a freak in everyone's eyes, but I also think he had done things that aren't considered ethical. Not evil, but untheical and he has said that he's done things he's never been proud of. He explained magic to be because he was "tired of being moral" and wanted to have some fun for a change.

Statements like this are very telling. Let me recap a bit for you... he was sick of being moral and wanted some fun. He got in trouble with the law. He got into drugs. He did some unethical things. He was in his late teens or early twenties. Your father disapproved of his practices. At the time your father confronted him about it all his troubles were blamed on the book of magick and they went and buried it in the middle of nowhere. Yet here he is, STILL practicing magick and telling you about how good and fun it is.

What does that say to you?





To be continued...

(I've hit the word limit and am only half way through. If someone would kindly stick a break post here that would be great, otherwise I'll post the second half in an hour or so)