Luciferianism and Satanism

[LuciaStar]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Satanism focuses more on the self but I heard Luciferianism is actually selfless as Lucifer wants to spread knowledge and help us.

That's kind of why I said the Satanist is more "malevolent" while the Luciferian is more "benevolent", but the both of them are labeled as LHP and both can aspire for apotheosis (I'm not sure if it's more of a theistic thing or not though) and both aren't as altruistic as the Big Three, so they're a little "selfish" in comparison to the Big Three. Though, as said and mentioned, Luciferians can be altruistic or selfless compared to their Satanist brethern but it doesn't mean all of them will be either. Some might have some Satanic morality, for example. It's kind of flexible

It also depends on what considers selfish. Having stuff for yourself is not bad as long as it's not against anyone's expense. i.e. taking more than your fair share of food or money, like being a cheap skate, are not ethical. I said almost all religions tend to teach some morals, being kind, don't hurt people, stop evil, love your land, family and so forth

It does but in the case of most religions, where some will teach you to be as morally selfless as possible, they're selfish because they don't teach you to be morally selfless. They teach you to trend your own path and morality. Decide for yourself, not what others tell you; independence, individuality, etc. In that light, they're selfish because they're focusing on themselves and not so much on others like some religions are prone to do or say. Not focusing on others can be seen as selfish to someone who is practicing a morally selfless religion, while focusing on others can be seen as ridiculous to someone who is practicing a selfish religion.

Luciferians, iirc, do value spreading knowledge and do value people gaining knowledge, but they also value deciding things for yourself, independence and individuality. So -shrug-

[Torey]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Just to add, there seems to be some confusion with Theistic Satanists and Luciferians here. Neither is more or less "malevolent" or selfish than the other. There are no real core teachings which would differentiate one as being "kinder" and the other being "nasty".

I do not believe that is what is being said - but from what is ensuing here, I can tell that it may be easy to misconstrue that what is being implied is that Satanists are bad and Luciferians are good. I simply wish to clarify that there is no inherent teaching within Theistic Satanism which would deny selflessness or altruism. In fact, I recently wrote an article pertaining to altruism within the framework of the Satanic ethos:

Altruism & The Satanist

I was aware of the theological position on the the king of Babylon but I don't personally know how they arrive at that conclusion. Homework for me :-)

Do you mean how did scholars arrive at the conclusion that it is the King of Babylon being taunted in Isaiah 14:12?

So, do any Satanists hold the view that Lucifer is an entity with power?

Yes, there are. Most of the Theistic Satanists who believe in a separate entity known as "Lucifer" base their beliefs upon Grimoire traditions and Christian fictions which portray "Lucifer" as a ranked Demon in Hell - often separate to Satan.

The hypothesis is that parallels are being drawn between the literal overwhelming of the physical Babylon by YHWH and the events of Armageddon - you have already alluded to this when you noted:

Something to be mindful of is that the name Babylon in the scriptures refers to two different things. One is the historical Babylonian kingdom, and the other is the spirit of Babylon which originated with the kingdom, yet survives its destruction.

This metaphorical contrast is seen as deliberate.

When Isaiah gets to addressing Lucifer, he clearly identifies him as a man, who is cast out of the grave, and who intended to enter heaven and take over the kingdom. Being cast out of the grave implies some form of resurrection, especially when it is compared to all the other kings of nations who remain asleep in glory.

What the scholars argue with these passages (Isaiah 14:19-20) is that being "cast from the grave" insinuates that the King, who would have once been buried separate from the "common people", even his own warriors, would be cast from his tomb (a great shame in both death and the afterlife) and would not even be deserving to be buried with even the fallen.

This King is often interpreted as being Nebuchadnezzar the Second.

"Lucifer", the Latin term in Isaiah, originated with the Vulgate translation of the Bible and essentially is translated as "light-bringing" (adj.), but more specifically is taken to refer to the planet Venus. However, the original Hebrew phrase was "Heylel ben Shachar", the Shining One - Son of Dawn - and this word "Heylel" only appears in this place in the entire Hebrew Bible.

As the Babylonian King is being deliberately mocked here, the significance behind this parallel between the King and his own Babylonian mythology can be seen clearly in the original Hebrew Bible's indication of "Heylel, son of Shachar" of Semitic (later absorbed into Babylonian) mythology. Shachar was the god of the Dawn and Heylel was his son - the grandson of El, the Supreme God.

Ancient peoples regarded the planet Venus to be Heylel ben Shachar (Morning Star, son of the Dawn) manifest. The taunt then draws a comparison between the King, who covets the Throne of the Jewish God (YHWH), attempting to ascend on high (Heaven) to overthrow him, and Heylel seeking to ascend Mt. Zaphon to overthrow the Supreme God, El.

Some Luciferians take this passage as referring to Lucifer the "Fallen Angel" - whom they equate to be identical to Phosphorous (Greek mythology) or to Lucifer, the son of Aurora (Roman mythology). Others may have wildly different views - some may seen Lucifer as even the Creator of the Universe.

[LuciaStar]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Just to add, there seems to be some confusion with Theistic Satanists and Luciferians here. Neither is more or less "malevolent" or selfish than the other. There are no real core teachings which would differentiate one as being "kinder" and the other being "nasty".

I do not believe that is what is being said - but from what is ensuing here, I can tell that it may be easy to misconstrue that what is being implied is that Satanists are bad and Luciferians are good. I simply wish to clarify that there is no inherent teaching within Theistic Satanism which would deny selflessness or altruism

It's not what is being said, no. Sorry. I'm not saying Satanists are bad or Luciferians are good, just that the two paths are more or less "selfish" than completely and utterly "Selfless" though it does depend more on the individual, I believe, and what they seem is best.

Though the two do have their differences and it does make one look "malevolent" compare to the other. Again, sorry if anything I said came across like that.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Was Osiris and the others actually tyrannical? Or is that what is written? This is why it's difficult to sometimes choose deities because none of us really know which one was benevolent and which one isn't. One source says they are bad and the other source says quite another. As you said, maybe they were in the past but no longer are.

You're kind of missing the point, Alienist. There isn't any way to categorize 'benevolent' deities vs 'malevelont' deities except through your own personal moral compass. And so trying to chose a wholly benevolent deity isn't going to work... because at some point you will invariably end up finding a story written by someone that portrays them doing something that they don't agree with. And when we talk about people (or deities) that we don't agree with, we tend to try to make them look bad in order to demonstrate our point. With the exception of YHVH, who has managed to get further than any of the others, there is no deity who has been worshiped world-wide. That means that every single deity in existence has people who either don't believe in them, don't agree with what they say or do, or downright think they are 'bad'.

It's a very good point that we don't know whether what was written down was 'true' or was just propaganda. We have no idea. None of us were alive or present at the time our mythologies were written. But we are alive now. And we are present at the events that are occurring now. Collectively, we have multiple experiences with deities every day. So if you are concerned about the truth of what was written down long before any of us were born, perhaps you should focus more on what people are experiencing and saying NOW.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not what is being said, no. Sorry. I'm not saying Satanists are bad or Luciferians are good, just that the two paths are more or less "selfish" than completely and utterly "Selfless" though it does depend more on the individual, I believe, and what they seem is best.

Though the two do have their differences and it does make one look "malevolent" compare to the other. Again, sorry if anything I said came across like that.

It's the use of the words 'selfish' and 'malevolent' that you need to be careful of. I think we all know what you are trying to convey, but the choice of words carries with it a high risk of misinterpretation.

'Malevolent' means 'intention to do harm'. That actually is not a good descriptor of Satanists at all, because the vast majority don't set out to intentionally cause harm to other people. And while 'selfish' is diametrically opposed to 'altruism', using it implies a negative connotation that is not necessarily accurate. And because 'selfish' and 'altruistic' are mutually exclusive, if you label something as 'selfish' you are inferring that it is unable to be altruistic. It is certainly possible to be a LHPer and do altruistic and selfless things, as I imagine you well know.

[Medusa]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

The idea that Satanists are more or less selfish or selfless is going down a road you really don't want to go. It's insulting.

[anunitu]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

My feeling about ALL deities,is they are more indifferent than evil or good. One could imagine they are evil because they do not respond to our prayers,but perhaps they are not interested,or occupied elsewhere.