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    The recent events made me think...

    Hello everyone!

    The reason I have written this thread, is that from time to time, I am thinking about people's fear to talk about their beliefs and religion outside the forum. In addition, some recent events in my life and threads that have been posted here played their part as well. (I am not attacking anyone!!!)

    When we talk about this subject, we should consider the large amount of reasons, because of which, people are afraid to talk about their inner world.
    In every community it's different, thus, the solution to every individual's problem also varies.

    In many cases, people are afraid to reveal their true self because of things like isolation, judgment, and negative comments.

    For example, a person who worships any sort of Paganism, practices Druidism or any other sort of things will often hear things like:"Do you worship Satan?" in the better case.
    In the worst, he might hear more offensive things, being hit by someone or just isolated from the rest of the community if he tells about his beliefs in a place where most of its members are Christians, Jews . Muslim or any other belief system. (Again, no offense)
    In this case, it would be better for him not to tell anyone about his true beliefs, in order not to be hurt somehow. By all means, you lie to whom to speak the truth is dangerous.
    We neither have the ability to change other people's faith, nor make them think in a different way about the universe. But we can influence by asking them to look on what this religion turns its followers into.
    By doing so, maybe the number of negative opinions will be decreased.

    Any opinions will be most welcome.
    "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



    Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

    #2
    Re: The recent events made me think...

    I'm not sure how I feel about this. My beliefs and practices are very private (with the exception of fellow practitioners and a few teachers, who I primarily interact with via the internet due to location issues), and on the one hand, I'd love to be able to talk about spirituality with the people around me, to share that part of my life with my friends and family. On the other hand, my 'beliefs'/worldview and practices are, in a lot of ways, based on my personal experiences (which isn't to say that they're formulated based on those experiences, just that I accept them because my experience has validated them to a degree), and people who haven't experienced what I have are going to struggle to accept some of those things or otherwise be made uncomfortable by them, and I find myself wondering if it wouldn't just be selfish to try and force the people around me to accept and understand (or pretend to, more likely) things which they don't have the experiential basis for, just for the sake of making me feel better.

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      #3
      Re: The recent events made me think...

      I'm kind of like that too. I'm not one that likes to advertise my beliefs (aside from pendants and rings), but at the same time, I like having the ability to talk about spirituality with my friends. It doesn't come up often, but when it does, both parties are willing to listen and share. I've been hiding it from my family for years, but I'm planning and writing in great detail an explanation of my beliefs. I don't know if I should still, and maybe this is my UPG talking, but a couple years ago I asked Yahweh if I'd be able to tell my parents that I'm pagan. He said he'd work on preparing them for it, and now he's signaled that they are ready to hear it. (Yes, I talk with Yahweh every now and then, and yes, in my experience he is nothing like the biblical god.) For the most part, I'll still go on as I am right now; not really talking about religion unless it comes up naturally in conversation. All I want is to maybe get my parents to understand my worldview, because it's not going to change and I'm sick of hiding it. Hiding has caused me too much undue stress as of late, and with Easter coming up...

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        #4
        Re: The recent events made me think...

        I used to want to share my beliefs and be able to freely discuss my spirituality with others without being judged, but I think that I've lived so long without doing so that I no longer care. Maybe it's that I'm just more cynical and disgusted with people in general these days - I sometimes don't feel that 90% of people are even worth my time, much less being allowed into my private world.

        That being said, unless there was some kind of simultaneous, radical eye- and mind- opening event that saw the entire world suddenly stop believing that Satanists are evil baby-eaters, I will keep my mouth shut for the safety of both myself and my family.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: The recent events made me think...

          Torey, my own thoughts are,why say anything. The world is way to "Shaky" to want everyone to know what I believe.

          Also,belief to me is a very private space,and not for public consumption. I seldom if ever talk to anyone about religion,mine or theirs.
          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




          sigpic

          my new page here,let me know what you think.


          nothing but the shadow of what was

          witchvox
          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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            #6
            Re: The recent events made me think...

            Blegh, my beliefs are personal information. I provide personal information sparingly on a good day and not at all on a bad day. I just don't have a compelling need to help most people understand me and I'm not seeking a community of fellow believers atm so there's no need provide explanations.
            life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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              #7
              Re: The recent events made me think...

              I'd like people to be better educated about religious diversity, and more openminded and respectful about other religious beliefs. I don't need anyone to agree with me--if they think I'm "wrong", that's A-ok with me, as I likely think they are "wrong". I just think I should be able to do or attend the same (or equivelent) religious activities as a Christian without it being a BFD. Its a matter of common courtesy. I believe in the free market of ideas...

              And this:

              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
              sigpic

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                #8
                Re: The recent events made me think...

                Thanks everyone for the comments.
                It's just I hate when people are treated differently because of something like this. I don't want people to agree and understand me either, but I don't want them to treat differently too.
                After all, everyone has his / her own reality and view on the world. One will not necessary agree with the other.
                "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



                Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: The recent events made me think...

                  I don't mind talking about my beliefs and I shouldn't feel forced to keep it private because someone might or might not like it. If they tolerate it, great, if not, that's their problem, not mine. Their opinion isn't going to change who I am anyway though.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: The recent events made me think...

                    I don't talk about religion unless I've been drinking because in a lot of cases, its just a rude thing to talk about. Its like poking a guy in the eye with a stick. No one likes it.

                    I'm not afraid of squat. I would happily tell people I practice witchcraft. Keeps the riff-raff away.

                    However, making pointless conflict is frankly boring. So why poke the hornet's next if the bees are sleeping?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Torey View Post
                      I used to want to share my beliefs and be able to freely discuss my spirituality with others without being judged, but I think that I've lived so long without doing so that I no longer care. Maybe it's that I'm just more cynical and disgusted with people in general these days - I sometimes don't feel that 90% of people are even worth my time, much less being allowed into my private world.

                      That being said, unless there was some kind of simultaneous, radical eye- and mind- opening event that saw the entire world suddenly stop believing that Satanists are evil baby-eaters, I will keep my mouth shut for the safety of both myself and my family.
                      Is it also because you do have someone you can talk to whenever, and discuss with as you need? That was my first thought when I read this I'm sure being private in your beliefs us easier when you have someone to be private with.
                      ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                      RIP

                      I have never been across the way
                      Seen the desert and the birds
                      You cut your hair short
                      Like a shush to an insult
                      The world had been yelling
                      Since the day you were born
                      Revolting with anger
                      While it smiled like it was cute
                      That everything was shit.

                      - J. Wylder

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: The recent events made me think...

                        The ability and opportunity to express oneself fully is a very liberating thing..While I don't think belief should ever be imposed on someone I do think that close-mindedness is sometimes just as bad.. I can't wait for the time where people can share ideas freely and be open to new ones, even concepts that may fundamentally change the way we think.. There is almost nothing I love more than having an open frank discussion with people that enjoy the free exchange of ideas..though to be fair this is also likely why I wound up becoming a philosophy major.

                        I will discuss spirituality and religion with those that ask but it is not something I directly bring up with mixed company..though topics do get brought up from time to time that eventually lead to the topic of religion. I find exploring other faiths an invaluable tool in relating with others..many of us can all have a conversation about morality and ethics and even have a concept of god(s) it's just the manner in which we practice or rather the trappings that surround it that differs..atleast that's my take on it so far.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: The recent events made me think...

                          I personally find religion to be the least interesting thing about a person. Their religious affiliation often says nothing about the actual person in real life. Because they usually fail to live up to that label. It may be what they wish to be. But often it's not what they are. Not by a long shot. I personally would rather know their music genre then their religion.
                          Satan is my spirit animal

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                            #14
                            Re: The recent events made me think...

                            i say to each his own. im proud of my religion and ive had christians and atheists and a few pagans criticize hate or tell me im wrong over my religion but i dont keep quit about my self if someone asks they get ansewers . and i believe that being open about who and what you are will eventually lead you to like minded individuals. although the road may be bumpy it smooths over in the end . im almost always in a fight or argument with someone over my religion sexuality and gods know what else , guess im just the guy that stands his ground and leaves everything on the table . this life is way to short to care what others think of you .
                            Knowledge is the key to eternity. Not bowing before a deity not grovling at the feet of a messiah. Knowledge is power beyond mesure - satanic witch

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: The recent events made me think...

                              In my normal everyday life the subject of what a person's religion is doesn't come up that much. If and when it does, I'm willing to talk about it UNLESS....it's a case of baiting.

                              If I really have time and energy for it, I'll discuss it with someone, even if they have an agenda just for fun. It doesn't happen much and these days if it does it's usually online. Mostly I don't go there, not out of fear or shame, but because by my age (nearly 50) it's just gotten tedious. There is only so many times I care to have that conversation again.

                              I lived in a Bible Belt area for a number of years, and there was a pretty vocal pagan voice but they were into baiting, you know, the very same thing they complained that Christians were always trying to do to them. I found it pretty embarrassing. At a party I was at there was a woman who kept going around and loudly starting conversations where every other sentence contained goddess and circle. No matter what anyone was talking about, she turned it into a discussion about how she was more pagan than the pope is Catholic and how she wasn't afraid to let anyone know.

                              Another woman basically introduced herself "Hi, I'm Tanner and I'm a witch" then would share the stories of people's reactions and upset. I guess it was her way of getting back at the fact that some folk will say "Hi, I'm Julie and Christ is my personal savior."

                              I don't see the point in trying to mirror behavior that we find obnoxious in another group of people. Only thing it proves is that anyone can be obnoxious if they set their mind to.

                              Unfortunately in that particular area that was the predominant pagan agenda. Pagans engaging in obnoxious behavior and they crying 'persecution' when they got called on it. Pagans who just did their own thing were told they were ashamed of their faith, didn't support the community etc etc. Pagan on pagan hate. sheesh.

                              When the cry of "persecution" went up I often wanted to say "they aren't hating on you because you're a pagan, they're hating on you because you're an a-hole."

                              I never hid my faith. Had big parties, gatherings and rituals for holy days and holidays, and invited people of various faiths and no faiths and I never got hated on or persecuted for being pagan.

                              My conclusion based on my experience is most people don't give a rat's patootie what religion a person follows, everyone just wants respect and polite behavior. The few who do care and make an issue of it are as likely to be of one faith as another. It's got to do with the person, not the religion they belong to.

                              I have heard of one genuine case among people I personally know (I am sure there are other valid cases) where someone was actively persecuted just because they were pagan. It was really sick and terrible.

                              I have also learned that I am very sensitive to being slighted, whether in reality or in my own interpretation of a situation. So I've gotten into the habit of stepping outside my emotion and doing a reality check...did that person really diss, attack, slight me or am I just being hypersensitive. Most of the time I realize that I have a hot button that got activated when they weren't actually looking for a button to push.

                              - - - Updated - - -

                              In my normal everyday life the subject of what a person's religion is doesn't come up that much. If and when it does, I'm willing to talk about it UNLESS....it's a case of baiting.

                              If I really have time and energy for it, I'll discuss it with someone, even if they have an agenda just for fun. It doesn't happen much and these days if it does it's usually online. Mostly I don't go there, not out of fear or shame, but because by my age (nearly 50) it's just gotten tedious. There is only so many times I care to have that conversation again.

                              What I do make an effort to do is to correct misconceptions. I have some very vocal atheist friends on FB, and they often post anti-religious things. Most of the time every "trait" they assign to religion is basically some beef they have with Christianity. But they claim all religions are such and such, and I call them on it and tell them to check facts. There are thousands of religions and before they condemn them all, maybe they should take their head out of their self righteous bums. I run into this on other forums too. In fact, I get way more heat from atheists than I do from folks in other religions.

                              I lived in a Bible Belt area for a number of years, and there was a pretty vocal pagan voice but they were into baiting, you know, the very same thing they complained that Christians were always trying to do to them. I found it pretty embarrassing. At a party I was at there was a woman who kept going around and loudly starting conversations where every other sentence contained goddess and circle. No matter what anyone was talking about, she turned it into a discussion about how she was more pagan than the pope is Catholic and how she wasn't afraid to let anyone know.

                              Another woman basically introduced herself "Hi, I'm Tanner and I'm a witch" then would share the stories of people's reactions and upset. I guess it was her way of getting back at the fact that some folk will say "Hi, I'm Julie and Christ is my personal savior."

                              I don't see the point in trying to mirror behavior that we find obnoxious in another group of people. Only thing it proves is that anyone can be obnoxious if they set their mind to.

                              Unfortunately in that particular area that was the predominant pagan agenda. Pagans engaging in obnoxious behavior and they crying 'persecution' when they got called on it. Pagans who just did their own thing were told they were ashamed of their faith, didn't support the community etc etc. Pagan on pagan hate. sheesh.

                              When the cry of "persecution" went up I often wanted to say "they aren't hating on you because you're a pagan, they're hating on you because you're an a-hole."

                              I never hid my faith. Had big parties, gatherings and rituals for holy days and holidays, and invited people of various faiths and no faiths and I never got hated on or persecuted for being pagan.

                              My conclusion based on my experience is most people don't give a rat's patootie what religion a person follows, everyone just wants respect and polite behavior. The few who do care and make an issue of it are as likely to be of one faith as another. It's got to do with the person, not the religion they belong to.

                              I have heard of one genuine case among people I personally know (I am sure there are other valid cases) where someone was actively persecuted just because they were pagan. It was really sick and terrible.

                              I have also learned that I am very sensitive to being slighted, whether in reality or in my own interpretation of a situation. So I've gotten into the habit of stepping outside my emotion and doing a reality check...did that person really diss, attack, slight me or am I just being hypersensitive. Most of the time I realize that I have a hot button that got activated when they weren't actually looking for a button to push.

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