Query for Satanists

[feathered_regalia]

This question is quite serious for me and I'm not making assumptions or leaping to conclusions, but I have a question for Satanists in regards to demons. See, I know there are some dark spirits out there who do, in fact, possess people. And there have been accounts of Catholic priests calling on the power of God to exorcise them. Some will attribute themselves to Satan and some will say they were invited in. I'm just wondering if any Satanist could tell me if, in their experience, there are actually minions of Satan or other "demonic" entities that actually possess the unwary and ruin their lives? Is this something that happens to inexperienced dabblers or has anyone seen a possession against someone's will? I don't really have enough information other than that. It's atypical of me to ask something that, from my level of experience and education seems pretty foolish, but this is just something I really would like to know more about. Any takers?

[Torey]

Re: Query for Satanists

This question is quite serious for me and I'm not making assumptions or leaping to conclusions, but I have a question for Satanists in regards to demons.

Just for clarification, most "Satanists" (without the Theistic descriptor) are atheistic and would thus not likely believe in the existence of Demons.
But to the question...

I will answer based upon my own experiences and system of belief.

See, I know there are some dark spirits out there who do, in fact, possess people. And there have been accounts of Catholic priests calling on the power of God to exorcise them. Some will attribute themselves to Satan and some will say they were invited in. I'm just wondering if any Satanist could tell me if, in their experience, there are actually minions of Satan or other "demonic" entities that actually possess the unwary and ruin their lives?

To begin, I'm rather glad that you placed the word "demonic" in quotations. I differentiate literal Demons from "assorted malevolent entities" - in my experience, they are two distinct classifications of beings.

Not all Demons "serve" Satan. As you can imagine, if you're at all familiar with the concept of the Otherworlds, is that the abode of Demons is not a single realm. They can be found in many places within the Otherworlds (and within this one) and can have many allegiances to many different entities. Demons are, in my beliefs, an intelligent, elevated classification of Spirits who do not casually decide to "possess" random Christians for shits and giggles.

However, there are all manner of nasty, malevolent or simply curious entities out there who are quite happy to overstep boundaries and to torment and harass people for whatever reason they may deem appropriate (if any).

So, to simplify - can spirits possess people? In my beliefs, they can and do (although I believe that actual physical possession is exceedingly rare). Are these spirits "minions of Satan" or Demons? Not likely.

I do believe that actual Demons have the capacity to possess the physical body of a corporeal being - but I also believe that many spiritual beings have this same capacity. But just because They "can", doesn't mean They "do".

The reality is that any spirit can represent itself as whomsoever it chooses - what lay person would know the difference? Just because a spirit says that its name is Belial, for example, doesn't mean that it is Belial. There is a responsibility, IMHO, to attain as much information about a possessing entity as one can when attempting to discern the legitimacy of its claim. Considering the fact that a great deal of occult lore insists that to know the true name of a spirit is to control it, I seriously doubt that any possessing spirit who wishes to remain in control will voluntarily confess its true name to the exorcist.

Is this something that happens to inexperienced dabblers or has anyone seen a possession against someone's will?

Again, I must reiterate - I do not believe that true involuntary possession by a spirit is common. The potential for such a thing to happen to "dabblers", as you call them, is certainly there - but the same "risk" is inherent for anyone who exposes themselves to potentially malevolent or uncontrollable entities. Even experienced magicians and witches are not immune if the entity is presented with the opportunity and the individual in question has failed to take proper precautions.

My belief is that most "possessions" are not literal - they are most likely manifestations of some form of imbalance (be it spiritual, mental or physical) or attention-seeking behaviour in many cases. But there's no doubt in my mind that true physical possession can and does happen - just not to the degree that it appears.

[Medusa]

Re: Query for Satanists

To answer from the other side of the Satanic table (the atheist one). No. If we were to believe in demonic possession, we would be just like the Christians. And we are not.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Query for Satanists

This question is quite serious for me and I'm not making assumptions or leaping to conclusions, but I have a question for Satanists in regards to demons. See, I know there are some dark spirits out there who do, in fact, possess people. And there have been accounts of Catholic priests calling on the power of God to exorcise them. Some will attribute themselves to Satan and some will say they were invited in. I'm just wondering if any Satanist could tell me if, in their experience, there are actually minions of Satan or other "demonic" entities that actually possess the unwary and ruin their lives? Is this something that happens to inexperienced dabblers or has anyone seen a possession against someone's will? I don't really have enough information other than that. It's atypical of me to ask something that, from my level of experience and education seems pretty foolish, but this is just something I really would like to know more about. Any takers?

The short answer is "What Torey Said", because there is very little that I'd like to add to what he's said.

But I always like to bring up the question of... when was the last time you heard of a non-Christian or non-Catholic being possess by a supposed demon?

In my opinion, true possession is rare, and usually it's a random malevolent astral nasty that has absolutely no relation to any deity or upper tier spirit at all. You also have to remember that astral nasties and malevolent lesser spirits usually love to feed on fears and phobias and uncertainties. I think THIS is why possession by 'demons' is so common in Christian and Catholic faiths... because the 'victims' are powerfully fearful of possession by demons. This must be a very attractive prospect to an astral nasty... and if you were an astral nasty, would you choose to feed off the person who is confident in their faith and has little fear, or the person who has a deep seated and unwavering fear of 'evil demons who are out to get me'. Scavengers and hunters go for the easy targets, not the hard ones.

[feathered_regalia]

Re: Query for Satanists

I am quite grateful for the responses. Thank you all. What Tor said is along the lines of the conclusion I'd been coming to, but without any real resources or references and only common sense and intuition as a guide, it makes it so hard to lay a bottom line of confirmation. This did raise an interesting question for me. What exactly is an atheistic Satanist? This seems paradoxical, like an oxymoron. Granted I know almost nothing about Satanism, so I'm sure I have my own misconceptions, but I'd be delighted to either be directed to some really good references, or get it straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I don't know why, but I have been extremely curious about Satanism for so many years and it would seem that I'm rather hungry for knowledge, lol. I definitely appreciate the feedback.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Query for Satanists

I can't speak from a Satanist perspective but from a Shamanic perspective there are entities that can possess a person. Like others have said or implied it is seldom that one encounters such that turns out to be true.

Where it gets a bit confusing though is that for Shamanic principles one can also be possessed by any of the various spirits that are derived from the various spirit allies and such. In some capacities things we come to be dependent upon are also seen as possessing spirits. So many natural stimulants for instance are seen as spirit allies and one can become possessed by the spirit of a plant ally. It is seen as an entity of sorts and even can be seen as a demonic type entity due to its actions and mannerisms though it is not such demonic creature at all. Certain psychotropic drugs are seen as being possessed and the spirit giving enlightenment or entrapment depending upon ones use.

Other spirits are not necessarily demonic to native or first nation perspectives but many pagans / occultist identify it / them as such. In certain locals for instance the Wendigo is seen as a demonic entity that can possess a person, yet also seen as simply a hostile forest spirit. Yet it can gain possession due to ones actions or things you eat, especially human flesh.

One might also consider the notion of Daemons within Hellenic and Roman cultures. They are not demonic in a Christian sense but can be sent by certain gods / goddesses to punish or inflict suffering upon certain individuals. They maybe a form of demi-being or even the restless dead and spirits of once human beings. Yet possession is a form of punishment.

Perhaps something else to consider as you discuss and consider notions of possession.

Something I wrote some time ago that may be of interest as well. Others may have seen this already, even yourself so beware it might be a repeat.

..............................

Back in the 70's and 80's I recall reading, hearing and speaking about the notion of Riders; Drivers and Possessors. At the time in the circles I moved in it was a pretty normal subject of conversation and speculation. Each being relatively similar in appearance and affect / effect so it was difficult to separate them at times.


So just who or what was / is a Rider; Driver or Possessor? To be blunt they were seen as beings, creatures, entities, etc that were of an energy that resembled the soul energy of a living human. While I use the term soul energy that in and of itself was also a speculative notion, but best served in another discussion. In many ways they collectively were also seen as the negative side of projecting ones spirit or soul into the universe. Didn’t matter with regard to it being O.B.E. (Out Of Body Experience), Astral or Ethereal Projection, Journey travel or even Dream Walking.


The basic idea was based around the concept that when a human projects their spirit out into the universe they leave their body as an empty husk. Yes, it has life and performs all the base life level functions but the actual force that propels and guides it is gone. Their body then simply becomes a shell that is left lying in some location awaiting the return of its spirit.


Now in most normal situations the "Spirit" that was projected remains connected to the body and if something goes wrong the spirit returns and inhabits its shell once again. That was seen as the normal progression of things. Project outward, experience what ever it was you went to experience then return home and merge back into your body. Many believing that even if you encountered something that shocked or frightened you your spirit body would be hurled or pulled back into your existing body.


Yet just as you were an attached spirit to a living body there were unattached spirit forces that might slip into your body. Many where though to be those Spirits that somehow had become detached from their own living bodies through death, expulsion, fragmentation, etc. Each believed to be looking for a body to assume and settle into to regain their humanity and life. Like lurkers on the edge of darkness they watch for the threads and try to slip into the protected / unprotected bodies. Once in the original owner being unable to come back until the unattached spirit was removed.


Some believing the longer the invader remained the more difficult time one would have or face in trying to drive it out. Eventually even usurping not only the assumed body but also the life of the one it had taken or replaced. Yet those unattached spirit essences were not and are not the only things out there. The possible threats being entities, daemons, demons, other creature's and creature's from other dimensions all seeking those unfilled bodies.


Some becoming Riders only in that they hide in the background and simply experience human life through their hosts. Occasionally being seen or felt as a separate body or persona that existed outside the original body. Probably or possibly the for-runners of the other kin / thereon grouping and such. Sometimes they would ride for sort durations only, other times potentially ones entire life. One critical facet of Riders though is they were usually passive and tried to pass unnoticed for the most part. The disadvantage was one might only discover they had a rider through dreams or connecting of the minds which resulted in some alien though patterns.


Drivers are something different, especially in they are active not passive in their actions. Those many times attempting to take over the body and use it for their own means to experience humanity. Yet most times the Drivers were / are only present for limited time frames, a few hours perhaps before they loose the ability to drive and slip out of the host. Yet some at the time professed that every night while we slept a new driver would settle in and experience or possibly direct ones actions until sleep once again claimed us and a new driver would settle in. Some though the succubus and incubus were drivers that utilized the sexual fantasies as a means of experiencing humanity.


The last grouping perhaps the most dangerous for they were the possessors. Many times though to be so strong they could force their way in to a suspecting or unsuspecting person and take control of them. Yet equally dangerous for they were never seen as having been human in any capacity. Never truly trying to experience humanity just trying to disrupt or gain control. Deriving strength and pleasure from the overpowering of the host's spirit. I recall reading that the unconscious projecting of self was though to be one of the most significant openings that were used to allow the possession to occur.


Now some might also include the notion of being ridden by their god / goddess in the same light. Yet I would dispute that association based upon the notion that one typically invokes / evokes a divine presence into themselves willingly. The practitioner willingly and knowingly inviting the figure to take over their body or co-inhabit it for some duration of time. The other difference to my perspective being that the divine presence has no desire to take over control of the body to experience humanity nor take the place of their follower.


Great lengths were taken to ensure that no Driver, Rider or Possessor could enter the body or gain access to it while the practitioner projected. Various charms, wards, glyphs and even another practitioner(s) to stand watch over and observe the body were seen as viable methods of protection. I even have a vague recall of passwords being used to ensure the correct "Spirit" had returned and bodily harm being inflicted or threatened if they could not recall the safe word. You can imagine what bodily harm may have entailed.


Today you do not really hear those terms anymore. Yet I wonder if practitioners have really discovered just what does wait in the shadows? Perhaps in the 70's and 80's we were a bit more selective and exclusive, or even fearful but felt that our safety and practice justified it.

[Medusa]

Re: Query for Satanists

Atheistic Satanists in general use Satan as an archetype and not an actual deity.

[feathered_regalia]

Re: Query for Satanists

Thank you for the addition monsno. I've only recently become extremely fascinated by accounts / stories of spirit creatures and encounters, before I simply listened to them and sort of cataloged them. I used to be more interested in meditative practices and simply being in touch with energies and trying to keep myself pretty "cleansed" and "whole", for lack of better terms. More about self-empowerment and self identity. Now I want to learn more. I want to understand more about the paths and beliefs that are out there. So, I love reading all this. I learn so much better when I have someone I can communicate with rather than simple text (not that I'm dismissing the importance of it).

Medusa, you're saying, if I understand this correctly, please correct me if I'm misinterpreting, that atheistic Satanism is following a Satanic belief structure and set of principles as sort of a life path / direction, while saying that Satan himself is not actually an entity, but merely the guiding principle (archetype) in which to sort of direct yourself? Pardon me if I sound like an idiot who needs to have everything broken down, but to me the idea of following a religion without believing in a deity is just a very new concept. I've just always felt like if you were going to follow a set of principles, why bother with a religion? Not questioning the validity, or saying it's a bad idea, I'm just wondering why it's satisfying. Would you be comfortable explaining what it's like? I'm ridiculously curious and I'm trying hard not to be too invasive.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Query for Satanists

Thank you for the addition monsno. I've only recently become extremely fascinated by accounts / stories of spirit creatures and encounters, before I simply listened to them and sort of cataloged them. I used to be more interested in meditative practices and simply being in touch with energies and trying to keep myself pretty "cleansed" and "whole", for lack of better terms. More about self-empowerment and self identity. Now I want to learn more. I want to understand more about the paths and beliefs that are out there. So, I love reading all this. I learn so much better when I have someone I can communicate with rather than simple text (not that I'm dismissing the importance of it)..

The only thing I'd add is that you have to believe in order to see not see in order to believe. Though I add the disclaimer that one must never open their mind to the point where their brains and critical analysis falls out onto the floor.

The rest your quite welcome. If I can help or answer any questions please feel free to ask on the boards or PM if you prefer. I'm a bit rough around the edges at times so it can appear uncaring so please don't let that scare you off.

[Medusa]

Re: Query for Satanists

Yeah, that's pretty accurate. I can break it down.
I am an atheist. That just says one factual thing about me that you can assume without looking like an ass. Which is I have no belief in deity(s). That's all it can say about me. It cannot help me with my moral code. My ethical behavior. My beliefs in 'the after life'. It cannot show me how to navigate this world. How to navigate issues I face daily. It cannot guide me to become the godhead of myself.

Satanism. Specifically for me, LaVeyan Satanism does that. It offers me a guide in how to present myself to the world. It helps me to internally and externally change who I am so that they match my mind's eye view of myself. There's a thread around here on it.

I'm going to take a shot and say theistic and atheistic are different paths to the same end though. We are looking into ourselves for knowledge and guidance as opposed to an outside source.

[Torey]

Re: Query for Satanists

I'm going to take a shot and say theistic and atheistic are different paths to the same end though. We are looking into ourselves for knowledge and guidance as opposed to an outside source.

Very true.

[feathered_regalia]

Re: Query for Satanists

Thank you guys so much for the feedback . You've given me some very interesting things to think about and research.