To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

[B. de Corbin]

Soooo...

Where do you come in on the vaccination question, and why?

Here's an article with a lot of very good links to reports and studies. Might want to buzz through this first:

Dear Parents, You Are Being Lied To

[anunitu]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

Having grown up in a time where you just got sick,and got through measles,mumps,chicken pox,etc and also there was the polio thing with the sugar cubes I have mixed feelings about vaccinations BUT it seems without them we see outbreaks of these illnesses now. There are long term concerns one being "Shingles" when you get to be my age.

So maybe good if there is no connection to worse things.

[ThorsSon]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

yes. Vaccinate your children. The article posted above pretty much makes my argument.

[Ektor]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

Being against vaccination is just harming people around you. It clears the world from diseases and alleviate sufferings we could avoid just by doing that.

[Rowanwood]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

People who don't vaccinate their kids and don't have legitimate allergy or medical reasons (like cancer, etc) are committing child abuse, of both their children and other children they will come into contact with. It's not an opinion. It's a fact.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

I remember back in the early 60's when I was a kid -

Even back then there was the lunatic fringe claiming that the vaccinations were A) the mark of the beast, B) a secret gooberment plan to sterilize people, C) some form of communism (I still don't get this one...)

[anunitu]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

I remember back in the early 60's when I was a kid -

Even back then there was the lunatic fringe claiming that the vaccinations were A) the mark of the beast, B) a secret gooberment plan to sterilize people, C) some form of communism (I still don't get this one...)

Thinking the communism thing was about fluoride in the water,also kinda a satire in "Doctor Strangelove"
with General Ripper.

[Shahaku]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

I really looked into this because, generally, I think natural is better when possible. But vaccine benefits way outweigh any possible risk. So, I'm vaccinating my daughter.

[Alienist]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

A lot of vaccinations they try to push on people are untested. I KNOW people that have had problems once they take vaccinations When it becomes mandatory and they try to outright force you to take it, that's when they cross the line. Nobody should force you to take anything, even if it would supposedly protect you. Besides, most if not all diseases can be cured through natural means.

[Malflick]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

Vaccines are held to a higher standard than other medicines. Some people having a reaction to them makes mass vaccination more important- because that gives humans a herd immunity that prevents horrid diseases for those people who physically cannot take vaccines.

[Ektor]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

No, no they cannot. Most diseases that killed thousands of people have been erradicated by vaccination and modern medicine, it's a scientific AND historical fact. This "natural vs. synthetic" does not make any epistemologic or biologic sense in itself, it's a fallacious argument and promoting with anti-vaccination is literally making yourself responsible for people contracting measles or poliomyelitis and their deaths by saying completely illogical stuff out of fear of vaccines.

[anunitu]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

You might consider that Small pox can not be cured with natural means,and there are other types that can be very dangerous without vaccinations.

[thalassa]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

Having grown up in a time where you just got sick,and got through measles,mumps,chicken pox,etc and also there was the polio thing with the sugar cubes I have mixed feelings about vaccinations BUT it seems without them we see outbreaks of these illnesses now.

I think most people don't know the actual numbers here...if it was just about getting sick, that would be one thing. My great-uncle was blind from gestational rubella, and I had a great-aunt that was partially paralyzed on the right side from polio. My great-grandmother (who spent 3 years in a sanotorium for TB) had a brother and a sister that dies of measles.

Excerpted from the CDC:

*Before polio vaccine was available, 13,000 to 20,000 cases of paralytic polio were reported each year in the United States. Annual epidemics of polio often left victims—mostly children—in braces, crutches, wheelchairs, and, in serious cases, iron lungs. Many of the children that survived experienced life-long consequences from the disease.

*Before measles immunization was available, nearly everyone in the U.S. got measles. An average of 450 measles-associated deaths were reported each year between 1953 and 1963. In the U.S., up to 20 percent of persons with measles are hospitalized. Seventeen percent of measles cases have had one or more complications, such as ear infections, pneumonia, or diarrhea. Pneumonia is present in about six percent of cases and accounts for most of the measles deaths. Although less common, some persons with measles develop encephalitis (swelling of the lining of the brain), resulting in brain damage. As many as three of every 1,000 persons with measles will die in the U.S. In the developing world, the rate is much higher, with death occurring in about one of every 100 persons with measles.

*Before pertussis immunizations were available, nearly all children developed whooping cough. In the U.S., prior to pertussis immunization, between 150,000 and 260,000 cases of pertussis were reported each year, with up to 9,000 pertussis-related deaths.Pertussis can be a severe illness, resulting in prolonged coughing spells that can last for many weeks. These spells can make it difficult for a person to eat, drink, and breathe. Because vomiting often occurs after a coughing spell, persons may lose weight and become dehydrated. In infants, it can also cause pneumonia and lead to brain damage, seizures, and mental retardation.

*Before the vaccine was developed, there were approximately 20,000 invasive Hib cases annually. Approximately two-thirds of the 20,000 cases were meningitis, and one-third were other life-threatening invasive Hib diseases such as bacteria in the blood, pneumonia, or inflammation of the epiglottis. About one of every 200 U.S. children under 5 years of age got an invasive Hib disease. Hib meningitis once killed 600 children each year and left many survivors with deafness, seizures, or mental retardation.

*Before pneumococcal conjugate vaccine became available for children, pneumococcus caused 63,000 cases of invasive pneumococcal disease and 6,100 deaths in the U.S. each year. Many children who developed pneumococcal meningitis also developed long-term complications such as deafness or seizures. Since the vaccine was introduced, the incidence rate of invasive pneumococcal disease in children has been reduced by about 85%. Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine also reduces spread of pneumococcus from children to adults. In 2011 alone, there were 35,000 fewer cases of invasive pneumococcal disease caused by strains included in the vaccine, including 21,000 fewer cases in children and adults too old to receive the vaccine.

* rubella is usually mild in children and adults, up to 90 percent of infants born to mothers infected with rubella during the first trimester of pregnancy will develop congenital rubella syndrome (CRS), resulting in heart defects, cataracts, mental retardation, and deafness.
In 1964-1965, before rubella immunization was used routinely in the U.S., there was an epidemic of rubella that resulted in an estimated 20,000 infants born with CRS, with 2,100 neonatal deaths and 11,250 miscarriages. Of the 20,000 infants born with CRS, 11,600 were deaf, 3,580 were blind, and 1,800 were mentally retarded.

*Before the mumps vaccine was introduced, mumps was a major cause of deafness in children, occurring in approximately 1 in 20,000 reported cases. Mumps is usually a mild viral disease. However, serious complications, such as inflammation of the brain (encephalitis) can occur rarely. Prior to mumps vaccine, mumps encephalitis was the leading cause of viral encephalitis in the United States, but is now rarely seen.
Serious side effects of mumps are more common among adults than children. Swelling of the testes is the most common side effect in males past the age of puberty, occurring in up to 37 percent of post-pubertal males who contract mumps. An increase in miscarriages has been found among women who develop mumps during the first trimester of pregnancy.

And if the personal cost isn't enough, there's always the economic cost.

People who don't vaccinate their kids and don't have legitimate allergy or medical reasons (like cancer, etc) are committing child abuse, of both their children and other children they will come into contact with. It's not an opinion. It's a fact.

This.

I had just written an entire post on the subject, and the internet ate it (and I didn't think to copy). But my third point was pretty much this. If you disagree, watch what its like for a baby to have whooping cough. Or never mind that these diseases can blind, deafen, paralyze or cause mental retardation. IMO, if you refuse to vaccinate your child, you should be liable for anyone that gets sick from them.

In case you didn't know what a child with whooping cough looks like:

(in person, it will, literally, make you cry--its heartbreaking)



I think it comes down to two things--ignorance and privelege. If you had asked anyone after the Spanish flu outbreak if they'd rather get a jab every year in the arm that *might* give them the sniffles or go through that again, I don't think you'd have many anti-vaxers. Unfortunately, our memory is short.

[thalassa]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

A lot of vaccinations they try to push on people are untested. I KNOW people that have had problems once they take vaccinations When it becomes mandatory and they try to outright force you to take it, that's when they cross the line. Nobody should force you to take anything, even if it would supposedly protect you. Besides, most if not all diseases can be cured through natural means.

No, no vaccinations given are untested. They are one of the most tested medications before they are put on the market, and after. The body of evidence on the safety of vaccinations is only debated by people that don't know better or have a philosophical agenda that they are trying to push.

Yes, there can be problems from vaccines. People can get sick from allergies and adverse reactions. The statistical chance of those reactions is much lower than the potential complication from the natural disease.

And no, "most if not all" diseases certainly can NOT be cured through natural* means, unless you mean by letting people die or go blind or go deaf or become mentally disabled. We tried that, and its why we invented vaccination and medication.



*and I'm not even going to touch the use of "natural" here... okay I lied. Most medications are based on PLANTS. Vaccines are based on THE DISEASES THEMSELVES which use the bodies NATURAL immunization process to develop immunity. I mean...vaccination is basically really strong homeopathy...before that stuff has been diluted to meaninglessness.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

You might consider that Small pox can not be cured with natural means,and there are other types that can be very dangerous without vaccinations.

The "natural cure" for smallpox is that everybody without immunity to it dies. That way, only those who have immunity, or are very lucky, pass their genes to the next generation.

Famous Example: Native Americans