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    #16
    Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

    Since this isn't a DMZ I must pass my judgement. I think the idea of a Tulpa can be explained simply by our imaginations, a powerful tool. And we can't make gods or godesses or whatever that Egregor is, afterall we're humans, if we could create gods why the **** would we need them? This whole Tulpa thing is a phenomenon for fluffy people to feel like they are the gods and creators, instead of submitting or hailing higher beings. I seen people talking about making my little pony Tulpas. It really annoys me, but I respect the opinions of others and would not say I "KNOW" they are wrong, I will however say in my opinion I strongly believe its all really egotistic.

    Edit: Also as was said this thread started asking for a religion similar to Shinto and then went to you sort of saying "Screw it I'll create my own god." so I'm not sure how to help when this thread is so bouncy.
    White and Red 'till I'm cold and dead.
    sigpic
    In Days of yore,
    From Britain's shore
    Wolfe the dauntless hero came
    And planted firm Britannia's flag
    On Canada's fair domain.
    Here may it wave,
    Our boast, our pride
    And joined in love together,
    The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
    The Maple Leaf Forever.

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      #17
      Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

      We are in a bouncy Castle?????WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




      sigpic

      my new page here,let me know what you think.


      nothing but the shadow of what was

      witchvox
      http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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        #18
        Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

        Originally posted by anunitu View Post
        We are in a bouncy Castle?????WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
        Beers turn derailed into bouncy sometimes I guess.
        White and Red 'till I'm cold and dead.
        sigpic
        In Days of yore,
        From Britain's shore
        Wolfe the dauntless hero came
        And planted firm Britannia's flag
        On Canada's fair domain.
        Here may it wave,
        Our boast, our pride
        And joined in love together,
        The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
        The Maple Leaf Forever.

        Comment


          #19
          Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

          Originally posted by Doc_Holliday View Post
          Since this isn't a DMZ I must pass my judgement. I think the idea of a Tulpa can be explained simply by our imaginations, a powerful tool. And we can't make gods or godesses or whatever that Egregor is, afterall we're humans, if we could create gods why the **** would we need them? This whole Tulpa thing is a phenomenon for fluffy people to feel like they are the gods and creators, instead of submitting or hailing higher beings. I seen people talking about making my little pony Tulpas. It really annoys me, but I respect the opinions of others and would not say I "KNOW" they are wrong, I will however say in my opinion I strongly believe its all really egotistic.

          Edit: Also as was said this thread started asking for a religion similar to Shinto and then went to you sort of saying "Screw it I'll create my own god." so I'm not sure how to help when this thread is so bouncy.
          Well, tulpas are able to possess the host's body, they can do soul travel, they can learn things that their host doesn't know, they can think about one thing while their host thinks of something else, and they get sad, angry, happy, etc in the exact same way that we do. They can have differing opinions from the host, similar opinions, they're capable of contemplating their existence, they're capable of empathy, remorse, etc, and they have desires and dreams, all separate from their hosts. To me, that sounds fully human.

          As for the thing about egregores achieving godhood, I don't really know anything about that, although a lot of people believe it's possible. It is a chaos magick belief, and it makes some pretty ludicrous claims, but basically, chaosites believe that deities, spirits, and even fictional characters can all be found on a separate plain. The deities and fictional characters aren't technically "real", but in a way, they are. Although, they appear to people in the form they expect. So if someone prays to Kali, and expects Kali the mother, they'll get Kali the mother. If they expect Kali the destroyer, they'll get Kali the destroyer.

          Remember, that's not my beliefs, that's the beliefs of a chaosite. Although my beliefs are similar (deities existing on a separate plain from us). I admit, I did fall in love with the idea of helping Celestia achieve godhood, and I still think that certain popular characters can become immortalized. Because so many people believe in that character. So, reality shifts to make it true. I don't think every fictional character exists out there, but I've developed a healthy respect for the untapped powers of humanity, and the universe. So I won't rule out the possibility of there being a Popeye, Luffy, Mario, or Mickey Mouse existing on some plane. We just can't see them because we're limited to a single plane (although our souls are not).

          Edit: As for why we need gods and goddesses, let me start by saying, I believe some originated as egregores, while others are naturally divine. And my view on gods and goddesses is that they're not genies who can grant wishes, but they're more like guides. Kinda like tulpas, but they're able to reach everyone.

          So this brings me to the point. Why would we need another deity? Because maybe some people are just more comfortable talking with a pastel coloured sentient talking pony. There is even a religion based off Cthulu and the rest of the beings from that one book (forgot the name). And they say, if one calls out to him in a moment of madness, he'll be able to hear them. Although that doesn't make the surrounding mythos true. It's impossible to awaken the old one, and cause everyone to go mad. Mythos are just a way of explaining deities. It would make no sense for every deity's mythos to be true, because many deities mythos contradicts with each other. For instance, the Bible says Yahweh made all of earth, while Shintoism claims that a pair of kami used a paintbrush to paint Japan, then the rest of the world (if my understanding of Shintoism is correct).
          Last edited by jcaternolo; 14 Apr 2014, 18:01.
          What one believes in is infinitely more important than WHO they believe in.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

            Originally posted by jcaternolo View Post
            Well, tulpas are able to possess the host's body, they can do soul travel, they can learn things that their host doesn't know, they can think about one thing while their host thinks of something else, and they get sad, angry, happy, etc in the exact same way that we do. They can have differing opinions from the host, similar opinions, they're capable of contemplating their existence, they're capable of empathy, remorse, etc, and they have desires and dreams, all separate from their hosts. To me, that sounds fully human.

            As for the thing about egregores achieving godhood, I don't really know anything about that, although a lot of people believe it's possible. It is a chaos magick belief, and it makes some pretty ludicrous claims, but basically, chaosites believe that deities, spirits, and even fictional characters can all be found on a separate plain. The deities and fictional characters aren't technically "real", but in a way, they are. Although, they appear to people in the form they expect. So if someone prays to Kali, and expects Kali the mother, they'll get Kali the mother. If they expect Kali the destroyer, they'll get Kali the destroyer.

            Remember, that's not my beliefs, that's the beliefs of a chaosite. Although my beliefs are similar (deities existing on a separate plain from us). I admit, I did fall in love with the idea of helping Celestia achieve godhood, and I still think that certain popular characters can become immortalized. Because so many people believe in that character. So, reality shifts to make it true. I don't think every fictional character exists out there, but I've developed a healthy respect for the untapped powers of humanity, and the universe. So I won't rule out the possibility of there being a Popeye, Luffy, Mario, or Mickey Mouse existing on some plane. We just can't see them because we're limited to a single plane (although our souls are not).
            Your beliefs would personally annoy me if they were near me, but your beliefs are not invalid and they help you explain this complex thing called life. So if its good for you I won't object, enjoy the path, and I hope you find what you're looking for here.
            White and Red 'till I'm cold and dead.
            sigpic
            In Days of yore,
            From Britain's shore
            Wolfe the dauntless hero came
            And planted firm Britannia's flag
            On Canada's fair domain.
            Here may it wave,
            Our boast, our pride
            And joined in love together,
            The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
            The Maple Leaf Forever.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

              Tulpas are human, now?

              I was just getting used to them not being a toddler's imaginary playmate, anymore.










              I really do need to go elsewhere. I'm liable to end up in a heap of trouble, here. Sorry folks; unsubscribed.




              "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

              "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

              "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

              "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


              Comment


                #22
                Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                Originally posted by ChainLightning View Post
                Tulpas are human, now?

                I was just getting used to them not being a toddler's imaginary playmate, anymore.










                I really do need to go elsewhere. I'm liable to end up in a heap of trouble, here. Sorry folks; unsubscribed.
                Probably too late, but I didn't claim tulpas were flesh and blood humans. But they are sapient. If someone somehow made a complex AI circuit that was able to fully reason, feel emotions, develop desires (without being determined by a RNG generator), and contemplate it's own existence, would it be any less sapient than a human? I think not. Now, whether that translates to humanity, there are different schools of thought about that, but to me, humanity is the ability to think, feel, and reason. I know that tulpas start off as belief, and are given memories from the host to create justification for existing, but they are perfectly capable of becoming sapient, or at least, humanlike, if enough effort is put into one.
                What one believes in is infinitely more important than WHO they believe in.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Looking for a religion similar to Shinto

                  To be quite honest with you, as a follower of Shinto, I am noticing some serious misconceptions in this argument. Shinto mixes extremely well with polytheism, it is itself a polytheistic religion, the main gods associated with Shinto is the Japanese pantheon, however worship of other gods is fine, although a god like Thor, who controls storms and the sea, is very similar to Susanoo, the Japanese god of almost exactly the same things, and as a traditional Shinto follower, and I have heard this philosophy promoted elsewhere, the Japanese gods come before the other gods as they are interpretations of the same god. It is of course always up to you, the kami of the individual seas, the mountains, the rocks, ancestors are not the same as the gods, despite the word "kami" referring to all of them, the gods are generally considered much more powerful than the more common kami embodied in all things and despite they do have many powers in their area of domain (or in the case of ancestors, their own family members' lives), they are far from the same as the gods. I would encourage you to do a little reading on the Japanese pantheon and the stories of it before you jump to that conclusion. Shinto teaches there is a heaven, an earth, and an underworld called "Yomi" so believe me, there is divinity outside of nature, the gods dwell in heaven and can influence things on earth to which they have power over (Amaterasu controls the son and can affect harvest, her brother Susanoo can call about storms and make the seas calm or rough). I really do hope this is helpful and please if you are curious further feel free to message me with questions.

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Originally posted by Witcher View Post
                  Shinto has been combined with seemingly disparate traditions before, particularly Buddhism. In East Asia, the lines between religions often blur. The cognitive dissonance does not seem to bother practitioners as much as it does here in the West. Buddhism seems, at its core teachings, antithetical to some of the concepts in Confucianism, Shinto, Tibetan shamanism, and many other traditions, but the systems have mingled and influenced each other for centuries.

                  Also, Shinto is a deeply ethnic religion. I mean, in a way all religions are tied up sociologically with a people, but some seem seem to have a more universalist approach or an easier time being adopted by others outside the original culture. Missionary religions like Christianity and Buddhism were much easier to adopt to other cultures whereas Shinto, for example, is extraordinarily rare outside of the Japanese. That might present a challenge but in the end, I do not see how it would be difficult to approach Shinto along with your current beliefs.
                  The reason it is rare is due to a number of reasons, a big one being Japan cutting itself off from the world around the later half of the 16th century. It did spread however, Ryukyu, a trade partner of Japan before Japan isolated itself is widely considered to have practiced the faith besides Ryukyuans being considered completely separate from Japan with many Ryukyuans (now called Okinawans) still considering themselves non-Japanese. A religious movement does exist in Shinto known as Ko-Shinto, this is a movement trying to restore Shinto before the spread of Buddhism and Daoism into Japan, which in my honest opinion, tainted the faith. Unfortunately, this is extraordinarily hard due to the fact that by the time Japan started producing literature and most of its records, Buddhist and Daoist beliefs were well rooted in Shinto. I personally follow Ko-Shinto, it is not hard, basically it just throws out the beliefs that are very clearly Buddhist and Daoist (i.e. meditation).

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