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    #16
    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    [quote author=Dufonce link=topic=948.msg17478#msg17478 date=1290783919]
    i have been keepin quiet. im straight but i have plenty of gay\lesbian\bi friends... so dont get me wrong by saying this...

    does this really belong in a pagan traditions thread? i could be misunderstanding but wouldnt this say its a pagan tradition of being gay? what gods does the gay tradition support? what is it structured like? this confuses me.

    this thread placed improperly can cause more generalizing that we're opposed to. im not trying to be mean. i just want you to see how some people may percieve this. i dont mean to hurt anyone i just think this may be the wrong place on the forum. and its an ask a thread... what questions are we asking... seems more of a discussion.
    [/quote]

    Its about Paganism--specifically about being gay and pagan...and is therefore perfectly on topic. Particularly in light of the idea (should the topic come up) that there are specifically gay traditions and groups within the Pagan community. Furthermore, how much discussion an OP is cool with in their thread is up to them--and considering this OP happens to be longtime moderator on this forum, I don't see that being a problem.


    ETA: The board description for this section is as follows--Discussion of contemporary Pagan paths, from recon to eclectic and topics of interest in the Pagan community. TBH, I'v been moving more stuff *to* this section that should have been put here in the first place...than moving out of it that shouldn't. But just to clear up any confusion, I changed the title of the board.

    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #17
      Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

      Kijani,

      I'm also full of questions about how understanding of the divine plays into being gay or lesbian. I know you can't speak for a gay man, but how does being lesbian affect your perception of the Divine Masculine? Heck, the Divine, period? Do you feel a need for a sense of balance?

      For some people, like my BIL, I've seen it lead to thinking of the energy of their own gender as creative, and the opposite as destructive (last time we spoke about religion, he felt drawn to Cernunnos and Kali). What is your take on that?

      Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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        #18
        Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

        [quote author=Dufonce link=topic=948.msg17478#msg17478 date=1290783919]
        i have been keepin quiet. im straight but i have plenty of gay\lesbian\bi friends... so dont get me wrong by saying this...

        does this really belong in a pagan traditions thread? i could be misunderstanding but wouldnt this say its a pagan tradition of being gay? what gods does the gay tradition support? what is it structured like? this confuses me.

        this thread placed improperly can cause more generalizing that we're opposed to. im not trying to be mean. i just want you to see how some people may percieve this. i dont mean to hurt anyone i just think this may be the wrong place on the forum. and its an ask a thread... what questions are we asking... seems more of a discussion.
        [/quote]

        Actually, several questions have already been raised. This thread does not say that it's a Pagan tradition to be gay, or that there are specific gods that we support. I never said that. What I said is that sexuality can have a big impact on the way that we carry ourselves, and thus a big impact on our personal spirituality as well. Culture affects spirituality and religion just as much as anything else does.

        [quote author=PharaohKatt link=topic=948.msg17487#msg17487 date=1290785026]
        Truth is, things can be hard being both not straight and pagan. We get to come out of the closet twice, so to speak. It's not that it's a separate tradition, just another facet of a complex identity.
        And if someone is having trouble, maybe we can offer support.
        [/quote]

        This right here. Well said.
        [quote author=Deseret link=topic=948.msg17518#msg17518 date=1290790501]
        Kijani,

        I'm also full of questions about how understanding of the divine plays into being gay or lesbian. I know you can't speak for a gay man, but how does being lesbian affect your perception of the Divine Masculine? Heck, the Divine, period? Do you feel a need for a sense of balance?

        For some people, like my BIL, I've seen it lead to thinking of the energy of their own gender as creative, and the opposite as destructive (last time we spoke about religion, he felt drawn to Cernunnos and Kali). What is your take on that?


        [/quote]

        I think that changes from person to person (just as opinions do on just about anything under the Pagan umbrella when you ask different people), but for me personally? I still feel that need for a sense of balance, yes. I think balance is very important. I have your BIL's outlook, actually, and that thought process helps balance things out pretty easily. For others, it may not change their perception of the divine at all, but it really just depends on who you speak to. The way I see it, sexuality is a part of us. It affects us to our core (several people have already mentioned Gardener's stance, for example), and this is very important. For me, it affects the way that I view the gods/goddesses that I do identify with.

        Does that make sense?


        It's a really, really cool thing, to be able to show people that you can be yourself, and you should be proud of yourself, and you should own who you are and what you're about, and never make apologies for it.
        -Adam Lambert


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          #19
          Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

          Makes perfect sense...thanks hun!
          Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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            #20
            Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

            Found this on witchvox. There are a bunch of other sites around the net, but this is a list witchvox has for Gay Pagan groups, etc:

            It's a really, really cool thing, to be able to show people that you can be yourself, and you should be proud of yourself, and you should own who you are and what you're about, and never make apologies for it.
            -Adam Lambert


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              #21
              Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

              Are there any god/desss assotiated with homosexuality excluseively rather than all love? Are there any stories about said gods/goddesss? Are any off them non-greek/roman? What are said deities places of orgin?
              Circe

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                #22
                Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                Why yes. Yes there are. I thought this article was really well written and had some pretty good information in it. The article mentions several gods from different backgrounds and their connection to homosexuality. Very good article, in my opinion. It even has resources listed at the bottom of it.

                Link here: http://www.orble.com/gay-gods-1-some...mosexual-love/
                It's a really, really cool thing, to be able to show people that you can be yourself, and you should be proud of yourself, and you should own who you are and what you're about, and never make apologies for it.
                -Adam Lambert


                Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools

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                  #23
                  Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                  [quote author=PharaohKatt link=topic=948.msg17326#msg17326 date=1290732126]
                  I'm also not straight (pansexual) so I'm happy to contribute to this thread, if you want the help.
                  [/quote]
                  Pansexual is a new one to me ... Could someone please give me a bit more data ... Need input ...
                  I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


                  Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

                  The Chief nodded in agreement.

                  The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

                  The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

                  Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."



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                    #24
                    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                    [quote author=magusjinx link=topic=948.msg17649#msg17649 date=1290824036]
                    Pansexual is a new one to me ... Could someone please give me a bit more data ... Need input ...
                    [/quote]

                    Pansexuality (also referred to as omnisexuality) is a sexual orientation, characterized by the potential for aesthetic attraction, romantic love, or sexual desire towards people, regardless of their gender identity or biological sex. <---from wikipedia.
                    It's a really, really cool thing, to be able to show people that you can be yourself, and you should be proud of yourself, and you should own who you are and what you're about, and never make apologies for it.
                    -Adam Lambert


                    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools

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                      #25
                      Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                      "I'm Try-sexual. I'll try anything."

                      hehe.

                      [quote author=kijani link=topic=948.msg17529#msg17529 date=1290792487]
                      I still feel that need for a sense of balance, yes. I think balance is very important.
                      [/quote]

                      I'm glad to hear you say that. It seems that so many pagans dive into this "rawr grrl power" mentality as an overcompensation against traditional patriarchies and forget about balancing. It's sad both because it stunts their spiritual growth, and it leads to "reverse discrimination," aka "feminaziism," although I usually just call it "sexism."

                      Be Excellent to each other - or something will Happen to you.

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                        #26
                        Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                        [quote author=kijani link=topic=948.msg17655#msg17655 date=1290824924]
                        Pansexuality (also referred to as omnisexuality) is a sexual orientation, characterized by the potential for aesthetic attraction, romantic love, or sexual desire towards people, regardless of their gender identity or biological sex. <---from wikipedia.
                        [/quote]

                        Yup, that's it. But omnisexual tends to refer to attraction to *all* sexes, whereas with pansexual, sex isn't a facet of attraction at all. (there's also multisexual, meaning attraction to many but not all genders/sexes. Just to confuse you more )

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                          #27
                          Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                          [quote author=PharaohKatt link=topic=948.msg17664#msg17664 date=1290825642]
                          Yup, that's it. But omnisexual tends to refer to attraction to *all* sexes, whereas with pansexual, sex isn't a facet of attraction at all. (there's also multisexual, meaning attraction to many but not all genders/sexes. Just to confuse you more )
                          [/quote]

                          Don't worry, it worked
                          Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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                            #28
                            Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                            As far as having a balance between sexual energies, I think people focus far too much on physical sex - that is, male and female. We sometimes forget that there's far more to being a man or a woman than having a penis or a vagina. For example, if you ask me, a person who is born a woman but physically becomes a man is just as much a man as one who was born male, because that person chooses to live as a man, feels like a man and thinks like a man.

                            I feel equally connected to my Goddess and my God. Not once have they ever frowned upon my relationships or my sexuality. I can talk to them about anything and they speak to me objectively. My belief about them is that they have experienced anything and everything we could think of, including all forms of sexuality. There is homosexuality in all of nature. We have our place and our social functions.

                            My being a man who is attracted to men doesn't make me "out of touch" with feminine energies. I daresay that gay men are generally more in touch with their feminine sides than are straight men, even those of us with masculine mannerisms. Therefore, I don't need a woman to be in touch with my Goddess. I don't need a woman to cook my meals or clean my house or do my laundry. If I rip my jeans, I can stitch it myself. If someone gets sick I can take care of them (albeit with a bit of a rougher hand than a woman might use). I have both Goddess and God within me. The same could be said for my lover. He is my Goddess and my God, and I am his. To hell with what Gardner said. He was a pervert anyway.

                            Fun fact: I have successfully drawn down the moon once in my life, but never succeeded in drawing down the sun.
                            Children love and want to be loved and they very much prefer the joy of accomplishment to the triumph of hateful failure. Do not mistake a child for his symptom.
                            -Erik Erikson

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                              #29
                              Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                              I myself relate more to the Goddess and my wife relates more to the God. We do balance eachother out but its quite a role reversal.

                              proving once again sexual orientation doesn't matter, whether it be what you prefer or what you are. Its whats in your heart that matters. Which brings me to why should we care what other people think?

                              I've been talking to one of my lesbian friends before and she shot me a "what do you know about oppression? you're not gay!" and I said "No, but I am a pagan." she silenced, because thats the first time I officially said it to her.

                              Our closets are next to eachother, just some of us have a passageway from one to the other. lol
                              "Sometimes bad things happen, and theres nothing you can do about it, so why worry?" ~ Timon

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                                #30
                                Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

                                Actually, to some, it does matter. Your culture--everything from what you eat to what you identify as to yes, your sexual orientation, can affect your relationship with your deity and your viewpoints on the whole. I'm not saying it will, but more often than not, it does. There are of course exceptions to this rule. However, it can and does affect your perceptions. I was out of the (broom) closet well before I ever came out of the closet as a lesbian. The two were related because I carried myself differently. I wanted to incorporate all of who and what I was into my spirituality. Yet still, I also knew at the time that my family would probably react worse to the fact that I was a lesbian than to the fact that I was Pagan. I was right.

                                You can say that sexual orientation doesn't matter, because to you, it doesn't. However, to many people, it does. There is another person in this thread who's sexual orientation matters more to his family than the fact that he is Pagan. Both are a part of who he is, just as I am a lesbian and a non-Christian. With my family, it is the same issue. Whether or not it matters is situational, in my personal opinion.

                                I have personally found that when I am particularly stressed or focusing on issues like this one surrounding my family and their...stance on my sexuality... that it affects my mood. It affects the way I feel about myself, because I feel as if they are disapproving of my very being...of who I am. And it's fine to say 'why care what other people think'. On a whole, I'm sure more people than myself would like to say 'well I -don't- care what other people think', but even those that say that do care on some level, and no matter how much you 'don't care' or how much you try to block that kind of negativity out of your life, it still will eventually get to you. I find when I get into a situation like that, that I end up feeling quite disconnected--from myself, from my deity...it affects me in many different ways.
                                It's a really, really cool thing, to be able to show people that you can be yourself, and you should be proud of yourself, and you should own who you are and what you're about, and never make apologies for it.
                                -Adam Lambert


                                Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools

                                Comment

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