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Greek Primordial Dieties

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    #46
    Re: Greek Primordial Dieties

    Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
    Which I think is a bit of a shame. Honestly, while I identify as Hellenistic due to the more syncretic methods I employ and how highly syncretic the Hellenistic period was, a lot of my personal study and personal spirituality has been directed towards the Greek Archaic period. The most evocative Hellenic art and literature, to me, was Archaic. The roots of what became standard Classical practice lay in the Archaic--especially with Greek drama and the Dionysos cult, in which I have a strong personal interest.
    I agree. My problem with the Archaic period is there are aspects that differ so greatly from one region to another. then it seems you have places where the early archaic is occurring when other places had entered the mid archaic for instance. Yet all of it laid the foundations for all the events and social / public perceptions that came after it.
    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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      #47
      Re: Greek Primordial Dieties

      You are actually not alone in this. Various ancient Greek philosophers were also dissatisfied with the popular pantheon. Socrates even wanted to ban Homer and Hesiod (see Plato's Republic chapters 2 and 3), and Xenophanes mocked the human representation of gods, saying that gods are no more likely to be human than to be animal. It is partly due to this that we see the development of Orphism, which focuses more on cosmology, and incidentally, on the primordial deities mentioned by Hesiod, as well as developing some deities of its own like Phanes, Protogonos and Aion.

      Nyx, for instance, was important in Orphic cosmology, as she was one of the first deities to emerge and even Homer implies that she is more powerful than Zeus himself (Iliad 14.242-270). The related Chaldean Oracles also present a similar cosmology using goddesses like Hecate in their theological system. They were even considered divine revelation by the late Platonists such as Iamblichus, Proclus and Damascius, and lack the stories of gods killing mortals for seemingly petty reasons or violently warring with each other.

      At the same time, I still would defend traditional mythology. Even Socrates continued worshipping the traditional gods like Apollo and Athena (after all, he became a public teacher because the Oracle of Delphi said there was no man wiser than him), and critics of religion like Lucretius and Heraclitus nevertheless used the gods in their system, while Orphics continued to attach themselves to the traditional cults to the point that they pretty much just became an extension of the traditional religion.

      You don't have to take the myths literally, and in fact, while myths were taken literally by many of the ancient Hellenes, they still undeniably contain symbolical elements that don't make any sense if you don't interpret them figuratively, and it is this that makes Greek mythology such a rich source of spiritual insight. So I don't think that it is necessary to abandon the traditional Olympian gods and their myths to create a purer and profound spirituality. I still recommend reading the different Hellenic cosmologies, though, not just the traditional Homeric and Hesiodic ones, so that people can get a deeper insight into the nature of Divinity.

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        #48
        Re: Greek Primordial Dieties

        I'm coming rather late to this party, but as one of the few reconstructionists here I though I'd add my two penn'orth.

        There was some worship of Titans in antiquity. Kronos everywhere at the harvest festival, Themis at Delphi, Prometheus in Athens, Gaia at Athens and Sparts, Leto in conjunction with her children Artemis or Apollo, etc. One thing that fascinates me is the existence of purely local deities. Aphaia on Aegina, Mneia and Azesia at Epidauros, Dione at Dodonna, Enodia in Thessalay; all of those were major Gods.

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          #49
          Re: Greek Primordial Dieties

          The Thracian goddess Enodia is a difficult one to dig out as she has been conflated with Hekate so deeply. In that regard she is sort of like the Thracian goddess Bendis as well who basically vanishes into the lore of both Hekate and Artemis.

          I do agree the local goddesses and gods are interesting trying to dig them out of the lore. It's like the Arcadian Artemis was a major wilderness goddess and very much an adult woman from what little can be found of her. Yet she is heavily conflated with the Olympian Artemis so is often seen as the prepubescent maiden with her nymphs.
          I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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            #50
            Re: Greek Primordial Dieties

            In some ways, I feel like the Hellenistic and late Roman periods were archaicizing. We see a resurgence, somewhat, of pre-Classical religious concepts and figures.

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              #51
              Re: Greek Primordial Dieties

              I'm gonna necro an old thread rather than start a new one...


              here's a nifty little piece about okeanos and ancient Greek art
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                #52
                Re: Greek Primordial Dieties

                I was going to send you a link to that, but I only got half through reading it before I got called away to do homework

                damn it! while I was typing that, the dog found and ate my hotdog.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #53
                  Re: Greek Primordial Dieties

                  What's interesting to me about that vase is Oceanus's horns. How many sea creatures have horns? The horned cap is a distinctive head-dress of Mesopotamian gods and it's often said that Homer's statement that Oceanus is the father of the gods is one of the many ideas he got from the east. In Mesopotamia, the parents of the gods are the primal waters, Apsu and Tiamat who emerge from nothingness. The Orphic teachings of Hieronymos kept that idea, with Oceanus and Tethys. Pherecydes (whose father came from Asia Minor) also started with Oceanus.

                  Herodotus made Oceanus a child of Gaia and Ouranos, which is probably the original Greek idea. That view was adopted by the Orphic teacher Eudemos and it became standard Orphism. Plato takes the Hieronyman line in the Cratylus and the Eudemian one in the Timaeus, but he took myths very flexibly.

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