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    #31
    Re: Debate on the christian bible

    Yes, people link conspiracy theory with crazy.... They do, it's not surprising, it's just what people who use certain forms of judgement do.
    My personal reasoning is that when we start piling one hard to prove thing on top of more than 2 more, it becomes extremely unbelievable, like attention seeking. Or crazy.... But all of the things start to pile together, this inane proof less theory with that one with vague evidence, and another involving aliens, the bs detector starts making noise....

    just sayin...
    http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

    But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
    ~Jim Butcher

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      #32
      Re: Debate on the christian bible

      Originally posted by Alienist View Post
      For some reason people seem to link "conspiracy" with "crazy" But then when people don't understand something or refuse to believe in something, they call it "crazy" because they don't know what else to call it. Yeah as if nobody in the history of humanity has ever conspired something or tried to hide something from public knowledge to suit their needs, right? If people for a second believe that their own government wouldn't even think of betraying them, then they really are insane as many governments and groups have betrayed their own kind. Knowledge is power. If I know something you don't know, I have more power than you.
      There are extremes in everything. And conspiracy theorists tend to go there. Does the government hide stuff? Hell yes. I'm sure they do. They admit to it. Everyone knows that there are classified files. Do you know why? For the protection of the public. Because as soon as the public knows about it these days, you know what happens? Facebook. Twitter. And say it's knowledge of a nuclear bomb threat. Wanna know what would happen if that exploded across facebook? I don't even want to think about the riots and panic.

      Back to the OP. The bible? Yes there are books that have been found and were included originally that got cut out. Let's examine why. The largest reason is that they didn't fit in with the majority of other texts. They told a story that was too far estranged from the majority of the books. This has happened in several religions, just fyi, including the Islamic Hadiths and Buddhist scripture (and we know how fond you are of Buddhism, but I don't see you examining it like this. I suppose all those monks and nuns are part of a conspiracy as well because they don't acknowledge all of those texts?) Now why would the Vatican be "hiding" these texts. Well the most likely reason for them limiting access is due to the fragile state of documents of this age. The oil on your fingers can ruin them. Literally. So, no, they aren't going to allow access to very old, possibly significant documents to just anybody. And how would anybody know about them if they didn't allow some access? If they were truly trying to hide it, no one would ever guess, no one would know, because only those above reproach would have access. They have let people see many of the very old texts they have. Many of the books have been studied in an effort to date them, now that we have that technology. No, I don't have specifics. Yes, I will be willing to find them, if you would actually be interested in taking someone's advice instead of just trying to bloat your ego.

      Now, I've given you some perfectly reasonable explanations. The reason people consider conspiracy theorists crazy is because you've probably been reading the above and instead of considering the possibility that there might be something to it, you are most likely thinking of even more far reaching responses to disqualify everything I just said. And that is a pretty dark path to follow.
      We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

      I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
      It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
      Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
      -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

      Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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        #33
        Re: Debate on the christian bible

        Originally posted by Shahaku View Post
        There are extremes in everything. And conspiracy theorists tend to go there. Does the government hide stuff? Hell yes. I'm sure they do. They admit to it. Everyone knows that there are classified files. Do you know why? For the protection of the public. Because as soon as the public knows about it these days, you know what happens? Facebook. Twitter. And say it's knowledge of a nuclear bomb threat. Wanna know what would happen if that exploded across facebook? I don't even want to think about the riots and panic.

        Back to the OP. The bible? Yes there are books that have been found and were included originally that got cut out. Let's examine why. The largest reason is that they didn't fit in with the majority of other texts. They told a story that was too far estranged from the majority of the books. This has happened in several religions, just fyi, including the Islamic Hadiths and Buddhist scripture (and we know how fond you are of Buddhism, but I don't see you examining it like this. I suppose all those monks and nuns are part of a conspiracy as well because they don't acknowledge all of those texts?) Now why would the Vatican be "hiding" these texts. Well the most likely reason for them limiting access is due to the fragile state of documents of this age. The oil on your fingers can ruin them. Literally. So, no, they aren't going to allow access to very old, possibly significant documents to just anybody. And how would anybody know about them if they didn't allow some access? If they were truly trying to hide it, no one would ever guess, no one would know, because only those above reproach would have access. They have let people see many of the very old texts they have. Many of the books have been studied in an effort to date them, now that we have that technology. No, I don't have specifics. Yes, I will be willing to find them, if you would actually be interested in taking someone's advice instead of just trying to bloat your ego.

        Now, I've given you some perfectly reasonable explanations. The reason people consider conspiracy theorists crazy is because you've probably been reading the above and instead of considering the possibility that there might be something to it, you are most likely thinking of even more far reaching responses to disqualify everything I just said. And that is a pretty dark path to follow.
        I don't believe it's for the "protection of the public." I think people might say "Well the government is hiding us because they want to protect us." Oh of course there are a few classified files that one would hide from threats from other countries, but most of it they don't need to hide.I think it's something they WANT to believe but the government wouldn't do it to protect us. As I said, knowledge is power and anyone who knows something that other people don't know has the advantage. I don't think one should live in a society of ignorance and lies.

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          #34
          Re: Debate on the christian bible

          Advantage in what? What could the government possibly know that would affect my life in the slightest?
          Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Debate on the christian bible

            Originally posted by Quetzal View Post
            Advantage in what? What could the government possibly know that would affect my life in the slightest?
            This. And...to quote old wwii posters, loose lips sink ships. I don't trust the public either---too many uneducated and/or willfully ignorant and/or just plain nuts people. Sure, you have the same in the government---it is, afterall, selected, elected, and staffed by the public, but its a smaller sample size. And people tend to have specific jobs and oversite and training and educational requirements and their scope of influence is limited to their area of expertise. When things legitimately are jacked up, the public finds out about it.

            Conspiracy theories are based on tenuous and twisted chains of illogic. And generally manufactured or non-existant evidence. In the real world, it takes too much work and there are too many people to cover anything up for long. Certainly, there are conspiracies or people trying to cover their butt, and certainly there are things that occured that have been forgotten by history (and the further one goes back, the less that has survived time) but the idea that there are massive world-wide cover ups of the bible or the knights templar or the illuminati, etc is rediculous. It runs counter everything there is to be said about human nature.
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
            sigpic

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              #36
              Re: Debate on the christian bible

              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
              This. And...to quote old wwii posters, loose lips sink ships. I don't trust the public either---too many uneducated and/or willfully ignorant and/or just plain nuts people. Sure, you have the same in the government---it is, afterall, selected, elected, and staffed by the public, but its a smaller sample size. And people tend to have specific jobs and oversite and training and educational requirements and their scope of influence is limited to their area of expertise. When things legitimately are jacked up, the public finds out about it.

              Conspiracy theories are based on tenuous and twisted chains of illogic. And generally manufactured or non-existant evidence. In the real world, it takes too much work and there are too many people to cover anything up for long. Certainly, there are conspiracies or people trying to cover their butt, and certainly there are things that occured that have been forgotten by history (and the further one goes back, the less that has survived time) but the idea that there are massive world-wide cover ups of the bible or the knights templar or the illuminati, etc is rediculous. It runs counter everything there is to be said about human nature.
              And what do you base this on? Do you have any idea how many prophets and scientists, even modern famous ones were once called "crazy" by their peers? Why is the idea of a group trying to take as much control as possible sound so implausible? Of course because nobody in history has ever tried to take over the world right? Not the British empire, not the Nazi's right? Just about every civilization has attempted to take conquer everything. If someone is power hungry enough and determined they'll want to take over. With how advanced our technology is (Since with our technology it's much easier to distort destroy and spy on the public) and the use of propaganda and distortion, do you honestly believe that a group or groups wouldn't attempt to take over everything? Seriously?

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                #37
                Re: Debate on the christian bible

                My point is not that it's impossible, it's why should I care? What affect will it have on my life whether it's true or not?
                Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Debate on the christian bible

                  Originally posted by Quetzal View Post
                  My point is not that it's impossible, it's why should I care? What affect will it have on my life whether it's true or not?
                  You mean why should you care that a government has secretive scriptures and advanced technology, some you probably have never even heard of, that they will probably use against you? As I said, if I know something whether it's access to technology or ancient scriptures or anything else, I have the advantage. Why do you think they keep things secretive all the time? For fun? I wouldn't be apathetic, especially with how advanced things are. It's actually kind of scary how advanced things are getting and how easy it'd be take over everything with that kind of power at your disposal.

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                    #39
                    Re: Debate on the christian bible

                    Use against me to what end?
                    Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Debate on the christian bible

                      Le sigh...Alienist, you totally missed what I said. What I said was that none of those things were the result of a massive CONSPIRACY. The Nazi's weren't a conspiracy, the British empire wasn't a conspiracy, the Roman empire wasn't a conspiracy. Conspiracy, by its very nature is secret. The very fact that we knew those things were happening as they happened indicate that it wasn't a conspiracy. Sure, human nature is to get your way. Enough other people want to get their way. In the end, we end up in the middle.

                      Deviation to mean.

                      Look, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but to difinitively state that *yes this is occuring* you need EVIDENCE. Extraordinary claims have an extraordinary burden of proof required.

                      People keep secrets poorly. Eventually, dirty laundry is aired. Repeat, ad nauseum.
                      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Debate on the christian bible

                        Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                        And what do you base this on? Do you have any idea how many prophets and scientists, even modern famous ones were once called "crazy" by their peers? Why is the idea of a group trying to take as much control as possible sound so implausible? Of course because nobody in history has ever tried to take over the world right? Not the British empire, not the Nazi's right? Just about every civilization has attempted to take conquer everything. If someone is power hungry enough and determined they'll want to take over. With how advanced our technology is (Since with our technology it's much easier to distort destroy and spy on the public) and the use of propaganda and distortion, do you honestly believe that a group or groups wouldn't attempt to take over everything? Seriously?
                        There are any number of issues Thal could be working from but one of the simplest is described by Ben Franklin,

                        "Three can keep a secret if two are dead."

                        Frankly, regarding most of humanity, the man was an optimist. People like talking. People love having and sharing special information and humanity trusts far too easily. In most cases, three people can keep a secret only after they've all been cremated. Are there exceptions? Sure. Intelligence agencies rely on finding them to be able to employ anyone but one of the most heavily concealed projects of WW2 (Atomic bomb) had been reported to Stalin by Russian intelligence before we ever used it. The Manhattan Project was operational for a few years before being infiltrated. You're positing that the Vatican has successfully kept crucial knowledge hidden for over a thousand years.

                        Motivation to keep a secret does not equal ability to keep a secret and you have a long way to go before making the case on ability.
                        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                          #42
                          Re: Debate on the christian bible

                          If the Vatican has hidden all this powerful knowledge, deep in the catacombs below, how would anyone even know of its existence?




                          "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                          "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                          "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                          "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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                            #43
                            Re: Debate on the christian bible

                            Bringing this back to the OP...

                            The published Bible actually has a passage confirming that Jesus had siblings. At one point they turn up with his mother wanting to talk with him and he replied that he is already with his brothers and sisters.

                            The bible, as mentioned earlier is simply a collection of scriptures that have been recognised as being divinely inspired. Even then, the requirements for being included are strict. The booke of Enoch, Jubilees, and Jasher were ejected from the cannon for reasons such as the original text no longer exists, or has been lost.

                            Now I have no doubt that the Vatican keeps secrets. They kept the trompe under wraps for centuries and is a good example of suppressed technology.
                            Last edited by MaskedOne; 24 Jun 2014, 13:07. Reason: removed off topic section

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                              #44
                              Re: Debate on the christian bible

                              Source regarding the trompe, please?
                              Last edited by MaskedOne; 24 Jun 2014, 13:08. Reason: removed off topic reference

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                                #45
                                Re: Debate on the christian bible

                                The apparent topic is a theoretical vatican conspiracy to conceal pieces of scripture. It is not

                                "Who's a true Christian?"

                                Nor is it

                                "What scripture is legitimately word of God"

                                "What scripture is historically accurate?"

                                anything to do with Marvel

                                Act convincingly like you can stay on topic and I'll try not to delete your posts. Fail to convince me and posts will either go away or be modified into a form I find entertaining. Excessive failure to convince me is not advised.
                                life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                                Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                                "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                                John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                                "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                                Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                                Comment

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