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Who or what was Jesus Christ?

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    #16
    Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

    Originally posted by Heka View Post
    Human being. Did great things for the people of the time. Had his story blown iit of proportion.
    Yup. This ^
    There is something pagan in me that I cannot shake off. In short, I deny nothing, but doubt everything. - Lord Byron

    Come forth into the light of things, let nature be your teacher. -
    William Wordsworth

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      #17
      Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

      The embodied Word of his Father. You may take this as literally or metaphorically as you see fit.

      Also the catalyst of far too many discussions among people who don't have any interest in following him. This part is meant quite literally.
      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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        #18
        Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

        Originally posted by LeviImmortal View Post
        Alien, Son of God, crack pot, fictional, Achiever of Christ Consciousness, incarnate of Krishna, just a rebel. I've heard it all, but what do you think? Who or what was Jesus Christ?
        Does it matter? His followers have basically walked away from everything he preached, in favor of what Paul of Tarsus had to say.

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          #19
          Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

          The Son of God, though not in the way most people think of him (IE: David was also "the Son of God" in the Bible).

          A Holy Prophet sent from God.

          Divine, and the living embodiment of the word of God on Earth.

          - - - Updated - - -

          Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post

          Also the catalyst of far too many discussions among people who don't have any interest in following him. This part is meant quite literally.
          I utterly agree with this statement.
          hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

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            #20
            Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

            Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
            Also the catalyst of far too many discussions among people who don't have any interest in following him. This part is meant quite literally.

            Well, yes.


            OR, it could be because he is a SUPERSTAR!


            (BTW, I'm really bummed about this--its one of my fave musicals)
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
            sigpic

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              #21
              Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
              Well, yes.


              OR, it could be because he is a SUPERSTAR!


              (BTW, I'm really bummed about this--its one of my fave musicals)
              Mine, too! Funny enough, I had a minor role in a 2000 production.

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                #22
                Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                Well, yes.


                OR, it could be because he is a SUPERSTAR!


                (BTW, I'm really bummed about this--its one of my fave musicals)
                I am really bummed about that to now. That is my favorite musical.

                Also, since I was a small child I've wanted to play Judas in it.

                - - - Updated - - -

                Originally posted by Torey View Post
                Mine, too! Funny enough, I had a minor role in a 2000 production.
                You lucky man! Any videos of you onstage on youtube :P?
                hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

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                  #23
                  Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                  Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                  Well, yes.


                  OR, it could be because he is a SUPERSTAR!


                  (BTW, I'm really bummed about this--its one of my fave musicals)
                  That's my all time fave movie. Ever! I actually saw Sebastian Bach (yeah, that one. From Skid Row) in the musical and he played Jesus. He can really sing those notes! I stood up and sang ever last song. Such a great musical.
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #24
                    Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                    Originally posted by LeviImmortal View Post
                    Alien, Son of God, crack pot, fictional, Achiever of Christ Consciousness, incarnate of Krishna, just a rebel. I've heard it all, but what do you think? Who or what was Jesus Christ?
                    The more I read, the more I am convinced that Jesus Christ is fictitious.

                    There are no records (outside of the Bible) that he ever existed.

                    The Bible offers a multitude of examples of its errancy.

                    Those two lines should be sufficient, since the onus is on the believer to prove that he exist(s/ed), not on me to disprove.

                    But, if those two lines are insufficient: Please show me evidence of the Christ on Earth.

                    The Bible says that there was a star that marked his birth... one that was noticed by Wise Men (probably Zoroastrians)... but there is no record of a signal star, outside of the Bible.

                    The Bible says that Herod (it doesn't say which of the 3 Herods) ordered the murder of all male children younger than 2 years old... History records nothing of the sort... outside the Bible.

                    The Bible says a lot of things that SHOULD be verifiable, outside the Bible, concerning Jesus. but none of them are.

                    Not the least of which is, at Jesus' execution, the dead rose... why are there NO records of zombies roaming the lands, in secular writings?
                    "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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                      #25
                      Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                      There are people that we accept as historic figures based on less. History is kind of like that, there's rarely any evidence beyond "it was mentioned in a book."

                      Like the hanging gardens of babylon, the only evidence we have that it existed is that a few dudes wrote down that it did a long time ago.

                      I mean how much evidence is there that Nebuchadnezzar existed, or Wenceslas, or Diogenes?
                      Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                        #26
                        Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                        Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                        There are people that we accept as historic figures based on less. History is kind of like that, there's rarely any evidence beyond "it was mentioned in a book."

                        Like the hanging gardens of babylon, the only evidence we have that it existed is that a few dudes wrote down that it did a long time ago.

                        I mean how much evidence is there that Nebuchadnezzar existed, or Wenceslas, or Diogenes?
                        There is less evidence for Homer or Socrates, than there is for Jesus... That doesn't mean that any of them existed.
                        "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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                          #27
                          Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                          Again, it doesn't really matter does it? I mean, it's not that much of a stretch to say that some dude lived around two thousand years ago and preached to people.

                          We have people around NOW who claim to be divine and that they can preform miracles, so I don't see any reason to think that those same sorts of people weren't around back in bible times.

                          People are the same as they've ever been, more or less. So if Jim Jones could happen forty years ago, why couldn't some one like him pop up two thousand years ago?
                          Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                            #28
                            Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                            Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
                            The more I read, the more I am convinced that Jesus Christ is fictitious.
                            Does it matter? I'm not saying it to be snarky, or to poke sticks at you, I just don't think that it matters in the context of human psychology, history, and evolution (and I sort of wanted to turn this into an actual, and productive conversation rather than another round of "why people that don't believe in Jesus feel compelled to spend tons of time talking about him").

                            Religion is about relating. Humans relate to things, even develop relationships with them, that can't possibly relate back to us all the time. Cars, pets, computers, landscape features, artwork, etc. There are people that have relationships with dolls--women and those creepy looking realistic baby dolls, men and those giant poseable synthetic skin dolls. The fact that the thing/idea on the other side can't logically, rationally, or realistically relate back doen't invalidate the fact that humans respond (as seen a variety of brain imaging studies) in the same ways as if it were a relationship with another person. To most people, the experience of being in a relationship, regardless of how "real" one might think the *whatever* recipient of those feelings might be, is real. I didn't see the whole movie, but I've seen clips and some interviews with cast---look at the recent movie Her....a one sided relationship (whether it be with a person, an inanimate object, or a deity) is still a relationship because it still feels like a relationship--it still causes changes in behavior as if it were a reciprocal relationship.

                            Somewhere along the line, overattribution of agency+the development of symbolic thinking=belief in *something out there*+ritual behaviors, and led to increased social bonding in early human populations. There is a tendency, when one thinks of evolution, to think that it is something progressive and that it applies to entire species. But its neither of those. Evolution happens at the population level, and its a matter of "just good enough" or "better than the next guy"...out-competing isn't the same as optimally competing. Religion benefited early populations by fostering the in-group and getting people to work for common goals, the person here or there that was excluded is immaterial in the wider scope of evolution. Certainly, this also results in violence between groups (and within groups due to non-conformity), and other abuses...but individual features of biological evolution in humans have much the same sort of double edged sword effects (we evolved to walk upright--but our bodies are a poor "design" for that...our knees, our spines, our feet gait are anything but optimal). Religion happens because it works, and it works because it has a net positive benefit for survivability...and it doesn't matter whether or not the recipient of the relationship (whether it be Jesus or Hestia or my car) is "real" or capable of relating back to me.
                            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                            sigpic

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                              #29
                              Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                              I was thinking just yesterday about how humans in general tend to set great store by "it is written" rather than by "I think". There may have been many self-proclaimed leaders at that time, but one managed to be written about. The fact that someone long ago actually wrote/drew/sculpted and those artifacts survived through time, seems to make them special, no matter what they are. Imagine what may line the shelves of museums centuries from now.....
                              sigpic
                              Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                                #30
                                Re: Who or what was Jesus Christ?

                                "fiction" was one of the options offered by the OP, and thus, the ONLY reason I decided to contribute to this thread. I only wanted to give my answer to the question.

                                Defending that position will turn into a debate about the merits of religion... because the only way I can answer thalassa and Denarius when they ask "does it matter?" is to say "yes" and explain why... and I've already gotten into trouble for that in another thread. So I will simply leave it as it is.

                                My answer to the OP's question is that I think that Jesus is fictitious.
                                "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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