Tragedy and common sense

[Shahaku]

So, this is probably going to be a can of worms which is why I'm putting it here.

We had an incident here recently when the flood waters were high. There was flooding in the streets in some areas and some teens (17, I think) were playing ball on one of said flooded streets in the rain. One of them got swept into a storm drain and the other dived in after them trying to get them out. The one that dived in survived, the other one didn't. They think he may have hit his head and therefore couldn't keep himself afloat and drowned.

It's a tragedy. I feel terrible for the families. It's sad all around.

But.

I've heard a hell of a lot of comments, "The city need to make those storm drains smaller." "Those storm drains need to be covered." "That family should sue the city!" And it's really ticking my off.

Why the hell isn't anyone saying, "Why didn't those parents teach their kids their kids some common sense? Why didn't they teach them the dangers of flood waters? Didn't those boys know just a few inches of flood water can drag a person off if the conditions are right?"

Instead of accusing the city and expecting them to account for every possible outcome and situation (and it's not just the city, it's any institution of organization that gets blamed for something that was an accident or preventable with a little common sense) why aren't we saying, "What the hell has happened to common frigging sense?"

We're so afraid of offending someone or hurting their feeling we can't say, "I'm sorry that happened, but you were an idiot."

And it's not just this particular instance. A young attractive female goes for a walk through the ghetto at 10 pm and gets mugged/raped/murdered. We don't want to blame the victim. It's not their fault. But damn, if they'd have just stopped for two seconds and said to themselves, "Is this safe?" There's a tragedy prevented. We've reached a point where, when tragedy happens, it's never our fault. That's so terrible, I couldn't have possibly brought it about. But the fact is, yes, sometimes the victim is to blame. Sometimes if they'd have used their head, that situation would never have arisen.

So, it's really bothering me, this blame game, and that's my thoughts on the matter, how about you?

[MaskedOne]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

If someone actually went into a storm drain then I'm all for covering the things provided that the city can't demonstrate a good reason for the current design. I'm far less impressed with calls to sue the city but leaving a known hazard that's easy to modify serves little purpose and the drains are now a known hazard. To your wider point, yes using half a brain can avert tragedy at times I'm against blaming third parties for harm endured purely because one is an idiot. I draw a very pointed line here though when the harm is delivered through the active malice or jegligence of another human being. Yes, the bad part of town might be clearly known. Yes, the existence of rapists in said area might be known. No, this does not make a rape victim culpable for criminal acts committed against them. A criminal act against an idiot is still a criminal act and the perpetrator should not now or ever be granted the delusion that just because a target has no survival instincts, it is acceptable to perpetrate violence upon them.

[Heka]

So, this is probably going to be a can of worms which is why I'm putting it here.

We had an incident here recently when the flood waters were high. There was flooding in the streets in some areas and some teens (17, I think) were playing ball on one of said flooded streets in the rain. One of them got swept into a storm drain and the other dived in after them trying to get them out. The one that dived in survived, the other one didn't. They think he may have hit his head and therefore couldn't keep himself afloat and drowned.

It's a tragedy. I feel terrible for the families. It's sad all around.

But.

I've heard a hell of a lot of comments, "The city need to make those storm drains smaller." "Those storm drains need to be covered." "That family should sue the city!" And it's really ticking my off.

Why the hell isn't anyone saying, "Why didn't those parents teach their kids their kids some common sense? Why didn't they teach them the dangers of flood waters? Didn't those boys know just a few inches of flood water can drag a person off if the conditions are right?"

Instead of accusing the city and expecting them to account for every possible outcome and situation (and it's not just the city, it's any institution of organization that gets blamed for something that was an accident or preventable with a little common sense) why aren't we saying, "What the hell has happened to common frigging sense?"

We're so afraid of offending someone or hurting their feeling we can't say, "I'm sorry that happened, but you were an idiot."

And it's not just this particular instance. A young attractive female goes for a walk through the ghetto at 10 pm and gets mugged/raped/murdered. We don't want to blame the victim. It's not their fault. But damn, if they'd have just stopped for two seconds and said to themselves, "Is this safe?" There's a tragedy prevented. We've reached a point where, when tragedy happens, it's never our fault. That's so terrible, I couldn't have possibly brought it about. But the fact is, yes, sometimes the victim is to blame. Sometimes if they'd have used their head, that situation would never have arisen.

So, it's really bothering me, this blame game, and that's my thoughts on the matter, how about you?

I'm a teacher. Parents blame me for everything. Or they blame adhd/add. Pretty much it comes down to raising your kids right. People kust don't do this any more, and noone wants to take the blame for their failure to bring up their kids right.

[Ophidia]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

Here in Las Vegas, we have a lot of pedestrian vs. car incidents, and in most of those cases, the pedestrians don't fare well. In response to a lot of these incidents happening on the Strip (Las Vegas' main drag, where all the big-name hotels & casinos are) the city built some very cool overhead bridges - there are escalators & elevators to take pedestrians up & they can avoid all traffic. Hell, they've even got pedestrian passages for the freeways out here. (I love the overhead bridges - having been hit by a car once, I don't relish a repeat of the experience.)

People still get hit by cars on the Strip because they choose to cross it in the middle of traffic instead of taking one of the convenient pedestrian bridges. And pedestrians still try and cross the freaking freeways, too.

At some point, the Nanny State can do very little to prevent human stupidity. The best they can do is postpone it until a stupider idiot comes along.

[Torey]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

I dislike that every time something like this happens, people start demanding that the family "sue the State", etc. Why can't it just be a terrible tragedy and be left at that?

I think that parents do have a responsibility to educate their children and to teach them common sense survival skills - but at the end of the day, the kids still have free will and may make the choice anyway to disregard what they've been taught. It's still not the State or the city's fault that a human being got washed into a drain because they were being irresponsible or were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time IMHO.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

I'm a teacher. Parents blame me for everything.

But it's true!

We go into teaching because there is nothing more fun than finding new ways to screw up the little dopes, and destroy their freaky families!

On a more serious note, yeah, many people are dumb as sheep, and require the full time services of a shepherd.

Since shepherding idiots doesn't pay well, there are never enough applicants for the job, and many people are left to their own dumb devices.

And it shows...

- - - Updated - - -

Corbin provides proof of his starling claim:

Something you shouldn't do with superglue...

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

We don't have storm drains that big where I live. But if we did, I would expect to see them covered. Yes, playing football in the rain is pretty daft, but if a storm drain is big enough to swallow up a close-to-adult young male, then leaving it uncovered is asking for trouble.

It's not the same as the teenager who stuck a rocket up his arse on Bonfire Night, lit the blue touchpaper and wanted to sue the firework manufacturer when his testicles were singed.

With this sort of case, it's a question of prevention being better than cure. And I think there is an anticipatory duty here.

Common sense in my book would be to cover the bloody storm drain instead of waiting for a tragedy.

With regard to the rape victim... rape is a criminal act. Do we blame banks for getting robbed? Not often. But hey, they're great big buildings and everyone knows they're full of money and just asking for it...

[Roknrol]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

You can't teach people common sense. That's what evolution is for.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

You can't teach people common sense. That's what evolution is for.

It doesn't work fast enough...

...or, there is some unseen evolutionary advantage concealed in "dumb genes."

[Roknrol]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

It doesn't work fast enough...

...or, there is some unseen evolutionary advantage concealed in "dumb genes."

Those are the same genes that prompt us to create Governments to take care of us

The only reason evolution works so slowly is because we counteract it by making stupidity illegal (and then we add warning labels for common sense shit).

[DanieMarie]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

I'm a teacher. Parents blame me for everything. Or they blame adhd/add. Pretty much it comes down to raising your kids right. People kust don't do this any more, and noone wants to take the blame for their failure to bring up their kids right.

Totally. No one wants to accept any responsibility. It's always someone else's fault.

I might strongly believe in regulations and government safety nets, but I also believe in accountability. You can't make a rule for everything....if you did, you'd have a lot of contradiction out there. Regulations are about limiting the absolute most harmful behaviour and protecting people's rights, not about preventing absolutely all damage.

[Medusa]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

Here in Las Vegas, we have a lot of pedestrian vs. car incidents, and in most of those cases, the pedestrians don't fare well. In response to a lot of these incidents happening on the Strip (Las Vegas' main drag, where all the big-name hotels & casinos are) the city built some very cool overhead bridges - there are escalators & elevators to take pedestrians up & they can avoid all traffic. Hell, they've even got pedestrian passages for the freeways out here. (I love the overhead bridges - having been hit by a car once, I don't relish a repeat of the experience.)

People still get hit by cars on the Strip because they choose to cross it in the middle of traffic instead of taking one of the convenient pedestrian bridges. And pedestrians still try and cross the freaking freeways, too.

At some point, the Nanny State can do very little to prevent human stupidity. The best they can do is postpone it until a stupider idiot comes along.

It's almost impossible to be a pedestrian and get hit by a car on the Vegas strip. You have to go out of your way to get down there! But boy have I seen some dummies try and do just that. I've been on the strip so many times. And half the time I don't even leave the casinos. I just hop one tram to the next casino.

[Shahaku]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

A couple things to note.

This wasn't just a case of boys playing in rain, slipping into storm drain. The streets were flooded. It wasn't recommended to leave your cars on the streets in the area. Let alone play ball while even more rain came down. The last time we had flooding like this was in '08, though this didn't get that bad (some parks were under water, ellis got hit (again), our hospital ER flooded. Last time, the whole first floor of the hospital was under water, not just a few inches in one section.) In other words, this isn't a common occurrence. Once every 6 years or so? Do you really need to foot a bill to cover all the storm drains in the city for something that occurs, to this extent, every 5-10 years?

Second, I'm not trying to say that rape victims are asking for it by walking through the ghetto at night. What I am trying to say is that instead of passing over it and getting all up in arms about this and that which are things that are quite difficult to change in the immediate, people should focus on common sense solutions. Use these tragic incidences as a learning tool, not just a shove it under the rug, put a patch on it, and call it good situation.

[Heka]

In regards to the rape one, I lived in a nice area of Adelaide, that was notorius for rapes in the parklands. Im talking 3 a year, plus multiple muggings etc. Now we were told, on day one, never, EVER walk through the parkland alone at night (and that was the only way to the pubs). We were reminded every time we went to the pubs. If you got stranded, someone would come get you. Noone in our college got raped in the 4 years I was there, or since, as far as I know. But the rapes continues, on other unfortunate women, who were WALKING THROUGH THE PARKLANDS ALONE. And everytime this happened, we all said 'that is really shitty, but she was alone'. So yeah, a nice story of where common sense usually prevailed.

One person at our college did get mugged once in the parklands, and while we helped him out, we also berated him for walking alone. He was pretty much fine, and took it well, knowing he shouldntve been alone.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Tragedy and common sense

Those are the same genes that prompt us to create Governments to take care of us

The only reason evolution works so slowly is because we counteract it by making stupidity illegal (and then we add warning labels for common sense shit).

Warning: Attempting to dry your baby in a microwave oven may cause unpleasant side effects.