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    9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

    Now I already know this is a testy touchy subject. Let's just get this out there.

    Girl 9, was being instructed to shoot uzi on gun range. She did. And then it got away from her grip *because she's EFING 9 holding a $(Y&($&%#$%() uzi you dumb ass! And well he's dead.

    This is NOT about guns are bad mmkay? I realize gun safety is taught to many kids across our nation. I have no beef with that whatsoever. I think if you are a family who uses guns, then yes, gun safety is a good thing.

    This is about age approriate training. Remember that thread about kids just being kids, because, well heck, they are KIDS. Well this is like that. Even with supervision, crap like this happens. Why? It's not about guns being bad. It's not about gun safety per say. It's about approriate age. KIDS should NOT be taught to use a damn uzi. I don't give a hoot what you say. It's never going to be ok. Unless of course you are Syrian and are about to protect your home, then just stop. That is not an appropriate type of weapon a 9 year old should be holding. It's like teaching kids to hold sparklers and figuring let's just give them some Mexican fire works to shoot off while we are at it. Or teaching your kid fencing and them letting go play with the neighbors with a katana. Just no.

    Stop making children do adult things. Just stop.

    I ranted. Sorry. This just pissed me off. I can't wait to have a kid. Because the first sign she has her period, I'm marrying her off to the first 10 year old boy who works in the factories.

    Oh wait. This isn't the early 1900s.
    My bad.

    Let the fun begin ::
    Satan is my spirit animal

    #2
    Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

    It was way too big a gun for too little of a person, especially standing up (not prone). It was absolutely stupid on the part of the instructor and he paid the price and has scared this poor child for life.

    However, terrible things happen every day and more people are killed by freak drowning (approx 4100 a year http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6234a9.htm) than gun accidents (3800 in 5 years, 760 yr http://nyagv.org/wp-content/uploads/...ings-NYAGV.pdf). But it doesn't make the news when grandma drowns in the bathtub with people screaming we need to outlaw bathing.

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      #3
      Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

      Some people are blaming the parents - it seems to me to be unlikely that the parents had much familiarity with auto fire weapons. Few people have ever shot them, since few people can afford them, or the licensing fees.

      The operators of the range should have known how difficult a full auto-fire weapon is to control (adults have enormous difficulty with them!), and either taken extensive precautions, or not let a nine year old try them.

      It's a terrible tragedy for everybody involved, and I don't know that there's a whole heck of a lot of value in playing the blame game, unless something useful can come out of it, but those who know REALLY should have known better...
      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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        #4
        Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

        Apparently this gun range caters to tourist crossing the Nevada border into Arizona just for this reason. I read a lot about the instructor's failings here. I've seen the video right before he's dead. He wasn't a bad guy. Just stupid for giving a kid an uzi and somehow thinking her little hands could handle that. Yeah, he's dead. I feel bad. But let's not mince words. This was a stupid move on his part. Even the pro gun people agree.

        Row, yes, terrible things happen every single day. And guess what? I get to judge them all.
        Satan is my spirit animal

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          #5
          Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

          It bodes so well for a society to allow/want little kids to handle that kind of firepower. Like, hmm, let's see.... Guerrilla troops in the Congo region, and the Al Qaeda types.
          sigpic
          Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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            #6
            Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

            I agree with Corbin - fully automatic weapons are very difficult to control for even an average adult who already has experience and familiarity with standard semi-automatic weapons. A typical 9-year-old wouldn't have the physical strength to appropriately control the recoil - so I don't understand what the instructor was thinking.

            That being said, I'm curious as to what the instructor's qualifications were in regards to firearms training. I'm fairly sure that the NRA doesn't issue a training qualification in fully-automatic weapons.

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              #7
              Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

              Originally posted by Torey View Post
              That being said, I'm curious as to what the instructor's qualifications were in regards to firearms training. I'm fairly sure that the NRA doesn't issue a training qualification in fully-automatic weapons.
              From what I've seen in the news, he was ex-military, and trained in the use of automatic weapons. On top of that, he was an instructor at the range, and *should* have known the correct way to manage an untrained shooter.

              Technically, he *should* have had his hand on top of hers on the weapon, in order to compensate for the inevitable muzzle rise (people who aren't familiar with shooting - like the young girl - usually don't understand that recoil forces the muzzle up and off target - no matter how good or how strong the shooter is - and that auto fire weapons increase this exponentially). But he didn't keep control of the weapon as an instructor should.

              It was a bad mistake, and mistakes can be tragic - but it was his mistake, his error, and he paid a heavy price for making it.
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                #8
                Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

                I think this is idiotic. I blame a) insurance companies that would insure a place that thinks this a good idea b) range owners that would find this to be a responsible practice, c) an instructor that would find this to be smart, d) and parents that apparently don't have enough common sense to think this is a bad idea or enough balls to tell their RamboBarbie wanna-be "no, you need to wait til you are older and do some conditioning and work up to it"...maybe even an e) because these four systems apparently fail, I'll blame the gun lobby and gun nuts because *heaven forbid* we have some common sense laws or self-imposed industry standards (the latter of which I can honestly tell you, considering what I now do for a living, never work) about age and weapon and training appropriateness.

                I like guns. I like to go shooting, its fun. We are gun owners. My kids will take a gun safety course or two whether they want to or not because I think that every child in this country should know how to safely handle something that is easily found in people's homes, cars, and persons. They will develop a healthy respect for the lethality and finality of a fire arm--Dad's family are law enforcment, Mom and Dad (and so are some grandparents and great-grandparents) are veterans, and both our families hunt.

                Now, because of four or five levels of stoopit, a family has lost their loved one, and a child has to live the rest of her life knowing she killed someone's father/brother/son/husband.

                Yes, more grannies might drown in a bathtub every year, but somehow, I find this a bit more tragic.

                (Most drownings are a result of children under the age of 5 unsupervised around household sources of water--buckets, toilets, tubs, African American (and other low income minority children) between the ages of 9-11 (or 7-13 per some stats) because they don't have access to swimming lessons, and young men between 17 and 24 because they do dumb things like jump off a roof onto a trampoline into the pool)
                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                  #9
                  Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

                  Originally posted by thalassa View Post

                  Yes, more grannies might drown in a bathtub every year, but somehow, I find this a bit more tragic.
                  I wasn't comparing the tragic aspect...I was comparing the inevitable backlash from the anti-gun folks...

                  I agree this is 100% more horrible and stupid.

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                    #10
                    Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

                    Originally posted by Rowanwood View Post
                    I wasn't comparing the tragic aspect...I was comparing the inevitable backlash from the anti-gun folks...

                    I agree this is 100% more horrible and stupid.
                    Probably an entirely different discussion, lest we throw the topic too far off course, but...

                    I think part of the problem is the inevitability of this becoming the anti-gun vs gun nut thing, again. Why does this topic always come down to "those people" want to ban all guns vs "those people" want to arm kids with bazookas? Why can't we ignore both groups of "these people" (because they are both extremist nut jobs) and come to terms? Its about time the people in the middle spoke up and took a stand for some common sense laws and restrictions. Instead of putting up with small children getting kicked out of school for developmentally appropriate play, while felons are buying guns through legal loopholes.
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                    sigpic

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                      #11
                      Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

                      Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                      Probably an entirely different discussion, lest we throw the topic too far off course, but...

                      I think part of the problem is the inevitability of this becoming the anti-gun vs gun nut thing, again. Why does this topic always come down to "those people" want to ban all guns vs "those people" want to arm kids with bazookas? Why can't we ignore both groups of "these people" (because they are both extremist nut jobs) and come to terms? Its about time the people in the middle spoke up and took a stand for some common sense laws and restrictions. Instead of putting up with small children getting kicked out of school for developmentally appropriate play, while felons are buying guns through legal loopholes.
                      Agreed.

                      In my household as a child i was taught not to point toy guns at people and you dont pretend to shoot someone. If that gun was real someone would be injured or killed and thats not a game to play. Water guns were the exception to that household rule. I think its ridiculous the extend schools are going to because of toy guns in class unless they looked realistic enough to be considered real. School shootings are tragic but playing with toy guns do not equal a child murderer. Instead i would like to see the schools treat children guilty of bullying to the same degree. Got off topic sorry im just sick of hearing kids suspended and forced too seek a psych evaluation for bringing toys to school.

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                        #12
                        Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

                        It was a terrible mistake by parents, by the instructor, but it is the child who has to live with it. That is the tragedy. I was probably about that age when I fired a shotgun for the first time. Granddad put a dummy load in it and the point was to just get the feel of the weapon ... it had some kick, too. Anyway, I have no problem with guns in the same way that I have no problem with drinking, it only works if the user understands the responsibility, and children do not. For what it's worth.

                        "No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." -- Niels Bohr

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by loststarshine View Post

                          Agreed.

                          In my household as a child i was taught not to point toy guns at people and you dont pretend to shoot someone. If that gun was real someone would be injured or killed and thats not a game to play. Water guns were the exception to that household rule. I think its ridiculous the extend schools are going to because of toy guns in class unless they looked realistic enough to be considered real. School shootings are tragic but playing with toy guns do not equal a child murderer. Instead i would like to see the schools treat children guilty of bullying to the same degree. Got off topic sorry im just sick of hearing kids suspended and forced too seek a psych evaluation for bringing toys to school.
                          See we dont have this. We shoot each other woth fake guns all the time. Its my neices favourite thing to do when she comes over.

                          But then I've only seen a gun on a cops hip. You need to do a tafe course to even get a gun license here, and you cant buy guns just cos you feel like it.

                          I have no issue with some amount of gun culture in america, but we have none of it here, and as far as I know, we don't have these kinds of issues.
                          ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                          RIP

                          I have never been across the way
                          Seen the desert and the birds
                          You cut your hair short
                          Like a shush to an insult
                          The world had been yelling
                          Since the day you were born
                          Revolting with anger
                          While it smiled like it was cute
                          That everything was shit.

                          - J. Wylder

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                            #14
                            Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

                            Ri
                            Originally posted by Heka View Post
                            See we dont have this. We shoot each other woth fake guns all the time. Its my neices favourite thing to do when she comes over.

                            But then I've only seen a gun on a cops hip. You need to do a tafe course to even get a gun license here, and you cant buy guns just cos you feel like it.

                            I have no issue with some amount of gun culture in america, but we have none of it here, and as far as I know, we don't have these kinds of issues.
                            Guns in childrens reach at my households. After my dad enlisted he said he had a whole different view on children pretending to kill people and laughing about it. Death is real not pretend. Then again i was raised watching horror movies so i dont claim my life to be considered normal. My dad was down with pretending to be animals and pretending to kill an animal. My dads not one to ban guns or be against learning how to shoot but guns require great respect. Even toy guns. It went along with the manners acting respectfully is most important value to him. I was raised by semi hippies (moms more conservative and dedicated christian

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                              #15
                              Re: 9 year old shot gun instructor with an uzi

                              I've got no issues with gun ownership, gun safety, or even with children learning the correct usage of firearms. The issue I have comes down to WHAT firearms are available to people. I really see no need for non-military/police forces to have access to automatic weapons. If you want to own a rifle, or a shotgun, or a pistol, sure .. go for it. But an AK, uzi? There's no reason for that.

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