Scottish Vote for Independence

[Naiad]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

Insinuating that living in an area gives you direct knowledge of how many far right creationists there are in your entire state. I don't know how many there are in Ontario.

I know. I'm just saying, you can't really single us out when there are plenty more out there, not even in the south.

I will admit there are some...interesting people here too. Just not only here.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

As someone living in Texas, there are plenty more far right creationist people in the other southern states, just sayin.

Unfortunately, Texas is the largest textbook market in the U.S. which means that all publishers shoot for what is acceptable to the Texas textbook pickers...

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

Although I understand why people do it, I really don't think it's fair to lump all independence movements together. I get that Scotland (or Catalonia, or wherever) becoming independent could inspire other places to push for independence, but each place has its own reasons for wanting independence. I think it's important to remember that and to consider those reasons when you decide to support or not support an independence movement.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

Although I understand why people do it, I really don't think it's fair to lump all independence movements together. I get that Scotland (or Catalonia, or wherever) becoming independent could inspire other places to push for independence, but each place has its own reasons for wanting independence. I think it's important to remember that and to consider those reasons when you decide to support or not support an independence movement.

I'm not overly concerned by Scottish independence beyond various migraines for NATO which I don't view as insurmountable. US states seceding nets a completely different asnwer largely because several of the ones interested also have an unhealthy belief in "The South Will Rise Again" and my preferred answer to that is "and the North will happily burn it right back down". If I see a US secession movement completely devoid of that association (Peurto Rico pushing to become an independent nation perhaps) then I'll be more benign.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

I'm not overly concerned by Scottish independence beyond various migraines for NATO which I don't view as insurmountable. US states seceding nets a completely different asnwer largely because several of the ones interested also have an unhealthy belief in "The South Will Rise Again" and my preferred answer to that is "and the North will happily burn it right back down". If I see a US secession movement completely devoid of that association (Peurto Rico pushing to become an independent nation perhaps) then I'll be more benign.

Couldn't agree more That's sort of what I meant. I totally support Scottish independence (still), but I do not support independence for the American south, as it stands at the moment, for that exact reason. I also don't support Quebec independence because a) it would split Canada...Quebec stands in between Atlantic Canada and the rest of Canada and b) Quebec nationalists tend to be a little racist, and lately a lot racist. That being said, I think that any region that votes for its independence for any reason ought to be independent. For that reason, I fully accept the "no" vote in Scotland. I don't know that it's a "no" forever, but for now, that's what the majority decided and the voter turnout was high enough that I think that it was the democratic decision.

[Larix]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

@ Scottish Vote for Independence

I just wanted to write a comment on it.

But I do not dare.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

I cannot understand for the life of me why Scotland turned down the chance of Independence for the sake of some empty promises from an unelected government made up of mendacious, self serving elites.

That said, I'm not sure that Scotland DID turn down that chance. (a) If they had voted yes, I'm still not convinced the vote would have been honoured. (b) I suspect - as do others - that the vote was rigged.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

I cannot understand for the life of me why Scotland turned down the chance of Independence for the sake of some empty promises from an unelected government made up of mendacious, self serving elites.

That said, I'm not sure that Scotland DID turn down that chance. (a) If they had voted yes, I'm still not convinced the vote would have been honoured. (b) I suspect - as do others - that the vote was rigged.

It's hard to say. Also, I'm not sure that a lot of the "no" voters voted for the status quo. There weren't really any official exit polls, so it's hard to say why people voted the way they did. I think a lot of people went for the promise of devolution and chose to hope that it would be honoured over the uncertainty of starting a new state. I am also very skeptical that it will be honoured, but I strongly hope that if it isn't, the Scots will demand another referendum.

[Quetzal]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

The government won't dare renege on the promise now, they just wouldn't dare. They'd be ripped apart by an angry mob if they did.
Also, I personally don't think the vote was rigged, and to suggest so without sufficient evidence is to do a disservice to the Scottish people who voted no.

[Larix]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

I suspect - as do others - that the vote was rigged.

I do not think so.

The United Kingdom is not Russia - is it?

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

Personally I'd think its the old story of staying with what is known regardless of how bad it is versus stepping into the unknown future and change. Look at the US itself when it comes to electing new people to get rid of all the dead wood in both houses we complain about. Many complain, then vote the old party line then complain some more.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

I do not think so.

The United Kingdom is not Russia - is it?

Hopefully it isn't, unless it has moved several thousand miles eastwards when I was asleep

My own personal experience of elections on various levels has lead me to the very unpleasant conclusion that vote rigging is extremely easy and widespread.
But that's just me and I don't expect everyone to agree.

[Carlin]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

I cannot understand for the life of me why Scotland turned down the chance of Independence for the sake of some empty promises from an unelected government made up of mendacious, self serving elites.

Me neither.

That said, I'm not sure that Scotland DID turn down that chance. (a) If they had voted yes, I'm still not convinced the vote would have been honoured. (b) I suspect - as do others - that the vote was rigged.

There's one particular video doing the rounds on Facebook of a table full of ballots that is clearly labeled 'NO' - but when the camera comes in closer you can see all the ballots are 'YES' votes. Very suspicious.

I'm glad the weekend is over. It's quite unpleasant here at the moment.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

It's all affecting Wales badly too, Carlin. Things that were promised to Scotland to get them to vote No have never been promised to Wales. We are over a billion pounds out in the cold as a result, and as a nation are getting poorer by the minute. Independence will, I'm sure, have to come. Maybe not in my lifetime. But come it will.

[Seren]

Re: Scottish Vote for Independence

The government won't dare renege on the promise now, they just wouldn't dare. They'd be ripped apart by an angry mob if they did.
Also, I personally don't think the vote was rigged, and to suggest so without sufficient evidence is to do a disservice to the Scottish people who voted no.

They've already started reneging on those promises.