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Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

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    Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

    An atheist in the US Air Force (USAF) has been told he will not be allowed to re-enlist unless he swears an oath to God.

    This should be an interesting case.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014...n_5803112.html
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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    #2
    Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

    To me this seems like a matter of atheist chest-beating. If you don't believe in god, making a vow to god is meaningless and hence shouldn't be offensive.

    I get why people want to fight it on principle and that's all its about. I get the feeling that's the entire reason this person enlisted -- since the rule specifically says they need to say the oath 'as is' conveniently last year.

    I guess I've personally moved past that sort of thing making me upset, so that likely colors my view on this. God is just a concept and a saying to me that means 'really mean it' and so saying "so help me god" is a matter of connotation vs. denotation (of specifically being about a deity vs. meaning 'very much')

    It wouldn't bother me to say it.

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      #3
      Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

      I think about it this way--if it is something that they don't attach a great significance to, by all means, just do it.

      But.

      If someone is willing to lie about something they strongly feel is deeply wrong in the most basic of oaths that one takes to serve in the military because other people don't think its a big deal...what else will they lie about or justify when someone higher up tells them so?
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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        #4
        Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

        Well, it's the principle of matters isn't it? At least he's being honest.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
          I think about it this way--if it is something that they don't attach a great significance to, by all means, just do it.

          But.

          If someone is willing to lie about something they strongly feel is deeply wrong in the most basic of oaths that one takes to serve in the military because other people don't think its a big deal...what else will they lie about or justify when someone higher up tells them so?

          I think the big question is just that. Is this truly a matter of belief (when they KNEW before enlisting in this specific branch of service that they would have to do) or is it just a stunt to draw attention to this thing they disagree with? People do crazy stuff to get their names and their cause into the papers.

          - - - Updated - - -

          Originally posted by LordJulian View Post
          Well, it's the principle of matters isn't it? At least he's being honest.
          That's what I'm questioning to be honest. I'm pretty cynical, but I'm not sure I trust this, considering the track record of a lot of anti-religious activists. (not freedom OF but freedom FROM types)

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

            I've seen a reenlistment where "so help me god" was left out...so...
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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              #7
              Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

              I the story they mention the "So help me god" was removed,but has now been reinstated.
              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
              NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
              don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




              sigpic

              my new page here,let me know what you think.


              nothing but the shadow of what was

              witchvox
              http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

                Originally posted by Rowanwood View Post
                To me this seems like a matter of atheist chest-beating. If you don't believe in god, making a vow to god is meaningless and hence shouldn't be offensive.

                I get why people want to fight it on principle and that's all its about. I get the feeling that's the entire reason this person enlisted -- since the rule specifically says they need to say the oath 'as is' conveniently last year.

                I guess I've personally moved past that sort of thing making me upset, so that likely colors my view on this. God is just a concept and a saying to me that means 'really mean it' and so saying "so help me god" is a matter of connotation vs. denotation (of specifically being about a deity vs. meaning 'very much')

                It wouldn't bother me to say it.


                I get really sick and tired of this mentality of just have the atheists shut up and lie because their belief system isn't really worth anything. Bullshit.
                Satan is my spirit animal

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

                  Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                  I get really sick and tired of this mentality of just have the atheists shut up and lie because their belief system isn't really worth anything. Bullshit.
                  I lied when I enlisted. Gay people had to lie when they enlisted for years.

                  Its not right, its just the way it is. At the end of the day, the dude has to decide which he wants more, until the system changes. For some people, its worth it.

                  (and the system won't change until people like him take a stand...unfortunately, knowing the system, he's gonna get chewed up and spit out first)
                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

                    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                    I lied when I enlisted.
                    If I had it to over again, I would say "so help me cod"
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

                      Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                      If I had it to over again, I would say "so help me cod"
                      Lol. If I want things to change, I can't bitch and complain. I have to be one of those who will not lie about who I am. I can't keep pointing to others to change how America views atheists. I'm an atheist. I wouldn't ask you to pretend to be a christian if you are not. I don't want to pretend to be one if I'm not. I won't just be quiet. If I die for this country, I'm going to do it screaming EVOLUTION MOTHER FUCKERS...and take the bullet to the butt or whatever it is that happens. But I won't. Cuz I'm too old and fat to die for this country. All those who take the Christian oath will just have to die for this fat old Satanist. :^^:
                      Satan is my spirit animal

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

                        I'm pretty sure this will be considered unconstitutional. As it should be.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

                          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                          I get really sick and tired of this mentality of just have the atheists shut up and lie because their belief system isn't really worth anything. Bullshit.
                          That's not really what I meant.

                          I mean that it seems more about ruffling feathers than about serving what they believe in. But I could be wrong. And maybe it's because I just don't care? If I say 'amen' as to not tick off the family when they say grace, does that mean I'm suddenly a Christian? They aren't asking me to take communion or stop having oral sex. It doesn't change my life or my beliefs and I think it's a waste of time, resources and effort to argue about it.

                          But I guess that's because outward expression of what I believe (or don't believe) is unimportant to me at this stage. So hence, I get really 'eyes rolling' at what would feel to me like overly melodramatic reaction to something that just doesn't matter.

                          Either way, this doesn't impact me one bit so my opinion is totally just conjecture anyway. I just question the motivation, is all.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

                            I say if this violates his sincerely held religious belief then he has full constitutional right to deny the god part. If he isn't lieing of course just to get a place in the news paper. Personally if they told me to say the god bit I'd tell them no and it violates my rights as an american , I currently go to high school were the pledge of allegiance is recited daily again I just edit out the under god part since I'm not of that faith .
                            Knowledge is the key to eternity. Not bowing before a deity not grovling at the feet of a messiah. Knowledge is power beyond mesure - satanic witch

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Atheist US Airman Told To Swear To God Or Leave

                              Funny they always claim atheist right up to the point where death seems certain and then pray to everyone and anyone to save their lives. But then again the old saying is there are no atheist in a fox hole.

                              As to whether its constitutional or unconstitutional or morally and ethically wrong I don't know. But I do know it will become another social issue that makes people think things are progressing because it can be enforced in the military by threat. Do it or face legal ramifications. So much for supposed progress, but it makes the civilians and especially politicians feel good and stand up and say hey look we did something for you.
                              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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