Friends Suck

[loststarshine]

She has been my friend for the last five years. She wanted to do something fot Samhain her idea. One day she is struggaling to accept her connection to the Norse gods. She asked me too look up the drawings she did all the time she thought it could be an old alphabet. I did suggest maybe its something from a past life. She was okay maybe sad that it wasnt a way older language. Now she no longer believes in the divine
or in anything other then death being final. Two days prior she was having a panic attack because she felt. she cant be for the Norse tradition you have to die in battle she cant die in battle etc.

I have had multiple dreams with her in them. Her killing precious things of mine. One I even woke up cryiing about the death of my sea turtle. I felt very disturbed all day.

I guess I feel betrayed slightly. Its her choice but I no longer choose to share any of my beliefs with her. So now I refuse anything she ever offers in that reguard.

[Gleb]

Re: Friends Suck

It's your choice not to share beliefs with her. But remember that in many pagan pantheons there are multiple gods, and not all of them are connected with battle. Your friend doesn't have to choose a god or goddess connected with death, or battle. If you ask me, then I would suggest Dagr, Eir (I think that Eir would really fit your friend) and Forseti.

[thalassa]

Re: Friends Suck

Norse afterlife is way more complicated than that...

http://sacrediceland.wordpress.com/2013/10/11/the-ancient-heathen-afterlife-not-as-simple-as-you-think/

http://pagansojourn.blogspot.com/2006/08/beyond-midgard.html

http://heathengods.com/library/bil_linzie/after_life_bil_linzie.pdf

If someone wants to reject Deity, its their business...but (IMO) at least do it for the right reasons.

[Gleb]

Re: Friends Suck

I dunno about this, Thal. It depends on how you define rejecting a deity. If you mean - not agreeing to worship one deity or another, then yes. Absolutely.
But personally, I think it's wrong to turn one's back to a deity in fear or shame. What do you think?

[thalassa]

Re: Friends Suck

I dunno about this, Thal. It depends on how you define rejecting a deity. If you mean - not agreeing to worship one deity or another, then yes. Absolutely.
But personally, I think it's wrong to turn one's back to a deity in fear or shame. What do you think?

I'm saying that if you want to say "I don't believe in god/gods/etc" or "Whether I believe in god/gods or not, I'm choosing not to worship them" there should be some sort of logical rejection of the theology rather outside of something like "the religion doesn't say what I want it to say" or (because I've seen variations of this) "people there were mean to me because I'm _______".

For example, I am not Christian because I disagree with the notion of original sin, or of sin in the first place, and the necessity of salvation from sin. Also, because I've never felt inspired by the Christian godhead. Not because some Christians are jerks, not because some Christian traditions are bigoted, not because some Christian churches wouldn't know charity if it bit them in the butt, not even because the Bible is *whatever you want to say about it*---because, if those were the reasons for not being Christian, they have nothing to do with Christianity. There are plenty of Christians that are lovely people, several inclusive and progressive traditions of Christianity, and wonderfully compassionate and charitable with their time and energy and money, and heck, there are plenty of Christian traditions that interpret the Bible in a number of ways that confound the idea of the Bible as a literal text.

[Gleb]

Re: Friends Suck

I'm saying that if you want to say "I don't believe in god/gods/etc" or "Whether I believe in god/gods or not, I'm choosing not to worship them" there should be some sort of logical rejection of the theology rather outside of something like "the religion doesn't say what I want it to say" or (because I've seen variations of this) "people there were mean to me because I'm _______".

For example, I am not Christian because I disagree with the notion of original sin, or of sin in the first place, and the necessity of salvation from sin. Also, because I've never felt inspired by the Christian godhead. Not because some Christians are jerks, not because some Christian traditions are bigoted, not because some Christian churches wouldn't know charity if it bit them in the butt, not even because the Bible is *whatever you want to say about it*---because, if those were the reasons for not being Christian, they have nothing to do with Christianity. There are plenty of Christians that are lovely people, several inclusive and progressive traditions of Christianity, and wonderfully compassionate and charitable with their time and energy and money, and heck, there are plenty of Christian traditions that interpret the Bible in a number of ways that confound the idea of the Bible as a literal text.

Makes sense. I don't follow the Abrahamic religions for the similar reasons.

[Amunet]

Re: Friends Suck

I hope things work out, both in your life and her life.
Panic attacks and disturbing dreams are just not enjoyable.

[Meadow]

Re: Friends Suck

She has been my friend for the last five years. She wanted to do something fot Samhain her idea. One day she is struggaling to accept her connection to the Norse gods. She asked me too look up the drawings she did all the time she thought it could be an old alphabet. I did suggest maybe its something from a past life. She was okay maybe sad that it wasnt a way older language. Now she no longer believes in the divine
or in anything other then death being final. Two days prior she was having a panic attack because she felt. she cant be for the Norse tradition you have to die in battle she cant die in battle etc.

I have had multiple dreams with her in them. Her killing precious things of mine. One I even woke up cryiing about the death of my sea turtle. I felt very disturbed all day.

I guess I feel betrayed slightly. Its her choice but I no longer choose to share any of my beliefs with her. So now I refuse anything she ever offers in that reguard.

Wow, I'm sorry things are so hard for you right now! I know rough bad dreams can be and what a toll they can take, so I hope those stop soon for you. Personally, I think it makes total sense that you feel betrayed by your friend, and your dreams seem to prove it. I also think you have a right to feel that way. I do wonder though if there is some way you can be the bigger person and attempt to help your friend, since it sounds like she is going through a rough time too. Like Gleb said, maybe you can suggest a different deity for her to look into.

That said, don't take on too much and remember to look out for your own emotional wellbeing. You are your top priority.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Friends Suck

Just as an observation but there is also a strong sense of doubt about your own beliefs here. She kills or questions her own beliefs then you find yourself having things or aspect killed by her in your dreams. Things that give your life purpose or importance which may tie into your own spirituality, perceived truths and questions.

Your example of her not getting into Valhalla for not being a warrior seems to also suggest there is a definite lack of knowledge on the Nordic afterlife as not all went there to begin with.

You don't say which pantheon you align to but I'm willing to guess its probably Nordic as well.

[Aislin]

Re: Friends Suck

IMHO it sounds like your friend isnt ready yet. she has to be called. its a journey and only she can walk it. i struggled for years trying to be a good christian, knowing in my heart i didnt really believe it. I just went thru- the motions, begging for an answer, a sign... something. When i decided i was "wiccan" i went thru all those motions, which i didnt really feel was right for me either, but i tried on that hat. I stuck with that structure tho, and its led me to some pretty awesome discoveries, about myself, and universe around me. But there were a few times i "decided" that i was done...i'll just rot in a box for all eternity...

But i was always called back. and i am still just beginning... My point is that just because shes thrown her hands up in frustration, and given it all up today, doesnt mean that the spark is dead. its still there, gnawing at her, just like it is in all of our darkest moments. Dont give up on her. Just be patient, and let her come to you. it takes a light touch. this can be overwhelming to beginners. I should know =)

[loststarshine]

Re: Friends Suck

Just as an observation but there is also a strong sense of doubt about your own beliefs here. She kills or questions her own beliefs then you find yourself having things or aspect killed by her in your dreams. Things that give your life purpose or importance which may tie into your own spirituality, perceived truths and questions.

Your example of her not getting into Valhalla for not being a warrior seems to also suggest there is a definite lack of knowledge on the Nordic afterlife as not all went there to begin with.

You don't say which pantheon you align to but I'm willing to guess its probably Nordic as well.

These dreams happened prior to our argument one almost a year ago. I believe in the goddesses Bast and Sekhmet. I am still fully learning more about Egyptian pantheon a
whole. My goddesses came to me many years ago way before I ever met her. My friend for the sake of clairity lets call her Anne she recently became interested in the Norse deities Anne researched shared her highlights. I continued my path the elements and the moon have been my main focuses as of late. I have been working on my meditating
visualtion.

Anne believed in a moon tripple goddess and focused on the laws of witchcraft. We talked about reaching out to the goddess (the moon) I was wanting to affirm,deditcate, annouce my beliefs my path. Anne was afraid it would be a judgement day for her she feared a divine tongue lashing of sorts. Later she starts wanting to find a deity so she researches and researches different pantheons nothing seems to intrique her intill the norse deities. Anne is stubborn fits her zodiac to a T forever indecisive. Anne said the vikings dreamed of nothing else then joining Odins army.

She did not shake my faith just my trust levels of our friendship. It wasn't a friendly chat it was her yelling attack where she is right and nothing else. Anne listens to no reason no logic when she is like this. Anne declared my beliefs were stupid like the christians nobody really knows anything. Spirits are just energy you cant explain. Atheist and scientist are the only ones correct.

So I was a bit hurt she wasn't supposed to belittle the only thing I have found stable happiness from. Its her path her choice.

IMHO it sounds like your friend isnt ready yet. she has to be called. its a journey and only she can walk it. i struggled for years trying to be a good christian, knowing in my heart i didnt really believe it. I just went thru- the motions, begging for an answer, a sign... something. When i decided i was "wiccan" i went thru all those motions, which i didnt really feel was right for me either, but i tried on that hat. I stuck with that structure tho, and its led me to some pretty awesome discoveries, about myself, and universe around me. But there were a few times i "decided" that i was done...i'll just rot in a box for all eternity...

But i was always called back. and i am still just beginning... My point is that just because shes thrown her hands up in frustration, and given it all up today, doesnt mean that the spark is dead. its still there, gnawing at her, just like it is in all of our darkest moments. Dont give up on her. Just be patient, and let her come to you. it takes a light touch. this can be overwhelming to beginners. I should know =)

I believe she is just being seriously insecure. I will stay her friend but she needs a more experienced hand that can shove her but back in line. I am not knowledgable enough to answer all her questions.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Friends Suck

These dreams happened prior to our argument one almost a year ago. I believe in the goddesses Bast and Sekhmet. I am still fully learning more about Egyptian pantheon a
whole. My goddesses came to me many years ago way before I ever met her. My friend for the sake of clairity lets call her Anne she recently became interested in the Norse deities Anne researched shared her highlights. I continued my path the elements and the moon have been my main focuses as of late. I have been working on my meditating
visualtion.

Anne believed in a moon tripple goddess and focused on the laws of witchcraft. We talked about reaching out to the goddess (the moon) I was wanting to affirm,deditcate, annouce my beliefs my path. Anne was afraid it would be a judgement day for her she feared a divine tongue lashing of sorts. Later she starts wanting to find a deity so she researches and researches different pantheons nothing seems to intrique her intill the norse deities. Anne is stubborn fits her zodiac to a T forever indecisive. Anne said the vikings dreamed of nothing else then joining Odins army.

She did not shake my faith just my trust levels of our friendship. It wasn't a friendly chat it was her yelling attack where she is right and nothing else. Anne listens to no reason no logic when she is like this. Anne declared my beliefs were stupid like the christians nobody really knows anything. Spirits are just energy you cant explain. Atheist and scientist are the only ones correct.

So I was a bit hurt she wasn't supposed to belittle the only thing I have found stable happiness from. Its her path her choice.

Bastet and Sehkmet are two very different polar position for sure. Just as a suggestion you might want to also look into Pahket don't care much for wiki but its a quick link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakhet , associated with Memphis and cat mummy cemetery at Speos Artemidos or Grotto of Artemis. She was middle kingdom / middle Nile and physically located between Bastet and Sehkmet based upon Upper and Lower Nile region. Don't confuse Pahket with Pachet which is a mistranslated name for Bastet at Ubasti. You may also want to touch upon Mafdet as she contributed aspects to the 2nd century Bastet and her temple at Babusta (sp).

If you can get them here's a couple of items that may be of historical interest to you

SocietyDavies's Copy of the Great Speos Artemidos InscriptionAuthor(s): Alan H. GardinerReviewed work(s):Source: The Journal of Egyptian Archaeology, Vol. 32 (Dec., 1946), pp. 43-56Published by: Egypt Exploration SocietyStable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/3855414 It's a jstor article so a bit harder to get but had a wealth of info on the temple and such at Speos Artemidos.

THE TELL BASTA TREASURE
BY WILLIAM K. SIMPSON
Assistant, Department of Egyptian Art (pdf file)

The great temple of Bastet at Bubastis it's a PDF file from Egyptian Archaeology

GODDESS CULTS IN EGYPT BETWEEN 1070 BC AND 332 BC
by
NINA MAY WAHLBERG
A thesis submitted to The University of Birmingham for the degree of DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY

BUBASTIS (1887-1889) Br EDOUAUD NAVILLE (its an older work but is still the best actual dig and archaeology book I've found on the temple and some religious history.

ARCHAEOLOGICAL SURVEY OF EGYPT
Edited by F. Ll. GRIFFITH, M.A, F.S.A.
FIFTH MEMOIR
BENI HASAN
PART III.
BY
F. Ll. GRIFFITH
WITH TEN COLOURED PLATES
SPECIAL PUBLICATION OF THE EGYPT EXPLORATION FUND (This is also an older book but deals with Pahket and Speos Artemidos but more from another archaeological aspect)

While I am in a constant struggle regarding Bastet, Pahket and Mafdet as to their Egyptian persona or the Hellenic persona of them I am sworn to them. Makes for an interesting study as 2nd dynasty Bastet is somewhat different from her 22nd / 23rd dynasty presence at Baubista and being conflated with Artemis.

Sorry about misunderstanding the sequence and relationship between your path and the dreams. I have actually heard of Sehkmet causing such an in the face argument to test and see if your that dedicated. In her role as a solar eye of Ra i've also heard of Bastet doing something similar though most seem to see her in her lunar role as an eye of Horus I think it is.

[loststarshine]

Re: Friends Suck

In my understanding from my research Sekhmet is tied into Horus when she is ied into as the eyye of Ra. Bast and Sekhmet are opposites ys between theres a balance for me. If this was a challenge by Sekhmet I dont know how she felt with how I responded. I am sick of arguing with Anne. I was boiling with anger I felt violent while she carried on I stopped respinding to her and invisioned smacking her.

I feared Sekhmet when I first met her she wasnt threatening I was clueless to who she was till the next day. I had made an offering to Bast and Sekhmet recently. Sekhmet confirmed she heard me and accepted it.

Bast for me has always been loving and motherly our interactions I look from kitten eyes at her she feels like home. Sekhmet comes to me in a more protective and powerful energy. Sekhmet demands respect you can see it in her paw steps. Not saying Bast does not she just comes across to me as easy to approach.


Thank you for the references I will save them. Bubatastis I would love to visit.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Friends Suck

In my understanding from my research Sekhmet is tied into Horus when she is ied into as the eyye of Ra. Bast and Sekhmet are opposites ys between theres a balance for me. If this was a challenge by Sekhmet I dont know how she felt with how I responded. I am sick of arguing with Anne. I was boiling with anger I felt violent while she carried on I stopped respinding to her and invisioned smacking her.

I feared Sekhmet when I first met her she wasnt threatening I was clueless to who she was till the next day. I had made an offering to Bast and Sekhmet recently. Sekhmet confirmed she heard me and accepted it.

Bast for me has always been loving and motherly our interactions I look from kitten eyes at her she feels like home. Sekhmet comes to me in a more protective and powerful energy. Sekhmet demands respect you can see it in her paw steps. Not saying Bast does not she just comes across to me as easy to approach.


Thank you for the references I will save them. Bubatastis I would love to visit.

Personally I'd think you could compare parts of it to the story of Sekhmet and destroying the world in her rage. Had to give her red beer and basically get her drunk to get her to stop the anger and destruction I seem to recall.

I tend to see Bastet in her warrior form as the lion headed goddess of the Wadi. That's the form she was best know for in the 2nd dynasty period. In the 22nd dynasty period she is more of the wild cat and lunar in association but then the Egyptian wild cat is nothing like what most seem to think of it as. I would love to see the remains of her temple though the few pictures i've seen of it show just how badly it was destroyed then pillaged by the locale population for building material.

It's mentioned by name in the bible for its destruction

Ezekiel 30:17
The young men of Heliopolis and Bubastis (Hebrew – Pi Beseth) will fall by the sword, and the cities themselves will go into captivity.

[loststarshine]

Re: Friends Suck

Yeah when she came down as the Eye of Ra. I also remember a story about Bast defending Ra from Apep and is poytrated slaying the snake. I respect her as a warrior I dont under estimate her.

I have recently been contemplating if Bast was in her lion shape as well and I interperted it as Sekhmet. The energies of the two were completely different. When Bast came there wasnt words just emotions no introductions. I awoke obcessed with past who I did a small report on a power point I did two years ago. I was a strong atheist. And thats how I climbed down the rabbit. hole.

I want to learn hieroglyphics and read it off the temple walls is my dream. I want to learn it and read it for myself I get sick of personaly interperted translations of Egyptian stories.

I want to see what it looked like back then.