The Effects of Children

[anunitu]

Re: The Effects of Children

"You never have enough money to have a kid, and you are never prepared for it. Period. Ever."

This should be fair warning for anyone who wants to have kids.....It can be a tough road to start down,and truthfully the road NEVER ends...But well worth the effort depending on what you expect from it.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: The Effects of Children

You never have enough money to have a kid, and you are never prepared for it. Period. Ever.

There is always some jerk out there who will disagree.

Today, I am that jerk...

K'Roe and I were married for 8 years before we had kids because we waited until we were ready, until we had insurance, and until we could afford it (we had already bought a house & had established jobs). When we went to her 20th high school reunion, K'Roe was pregnant with #2 daughter - everybody else there was showing off their kid's wedding pictures.


Unfortunately (or fortunately?), it was everything else in life we managed to screw up royally.

[loststarshine]

Re: The Effects of Children

There is always some jerk out there who will disagree.

Today, I am that jerk...

K'Roe and I were married for 8 years before we had kids because we waited until we were ready, until we had insurance, and until we could afford it (we had already bought a house & had established jobs). When we went to her 20th high school reunion, K'Roe was pregnant with #2 daughter - everybody else there was showing off their kid's wedding pictures.


Unfortunately (or fortunately?), it was everything else in life we managed to screw up royally.

I agree to a point. There are times when waiting is pratical and your not spreading yourself thinly. It is possible to go to college work and be parents. Waiting till say after college will allow you more time to spend on your kid and less on homework. And you get to know who you are what you want and how to get it. Children can make or break relationships I second having more time as a couple before children to strengthen your bond as a couple.

On another note my parents were in their thirtys and that provided me no benefits.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: The Effects of Children

I do think that having children has allowed me to see the beauty in my pathwalk but also to see the world through their eyes and reactions. Whether your child be in their teens or 3 or 4 they experience the world and Spirit all about them and express that in amazement, wonder and the ability to simply look at say a line of ants and see the greatness that is to be found there. In many ways to remind me (us?) just what a leap of faith really is or the ability to see beyond the boundaries of here and now. Books can't do that its life and living it that does that I think.

[Rowanwood]

Re: The Effects of Children

There is always some jerk out there who will disagree.

Today, I am that jerk...

K'Roe and I were married for 8 years before we had kids because we waited until we were ready, until we had insurance, and until we could afford it (we had already bought a house & had established jobs). When we went to her 20th high school reunion, K'Roe was pregnant with #2 daughter - everybody else there was showing off their kid's wedding pictures.


Unfortunately (or fortunately?), it was everything else in life we managed to screw up royally.

I agree with you too actually.

Last year was my 20 yr class reunion. My daughter is 3. I would have been a crap mother when I was young, because I was not ready.

There will always be fear certainly, but having kids when you aren't stable, don't have insurance/income, aren't emotionally healthy (reasonably) ... your kids will pay for that every day. I have seen so much of that -- women I grew up with who's parents were teens who had their babies as teens who are now having their grandbabies as teens and struggling to just feed themselves and all single talking about their "sperm donors" because they didn't choose wisely.

When I was young...all I knew were donors. Then I met someone worthy of fatherhood. It's honestly harder for men without so much biological involvement almost forcing a bond. Wrong partner and poof...they are gone.




And spiritually, for me, my daughter changed everything. If she hadn't, then I'd feel like I wasn't paying attention. I grew a person and now I'm helping shape one. If that's not a spiritual experience, I don't know what is.

[Aislin]

Re: The Effects of Children

I am childless and not holding my breath. I am at terms with having cats and collecting troll dolls.

yup... same here, on the cats anyway, tho i do have my own collections... hubbies never wanted kids. hes that great uncle everyone loves, but we both feel like big kids i suppose...

[thalassa]

Re: The Effects of Children

There will always be fear certainly, but having kids when you aren't stable, don't have insurance/income, aren't emotionally healthy (reasonably) ... your kids will pay for that every day. I have seen so much of that -- women I grew up with who's parents were teens who had their babies as teens who are now having their grandbabies as teens and struggling to just feed themselves and all single talking about their "sperm donors" because they didn't choose wisely.

Now, I don't disagree with this either. There's a difference between being unready and unprepared for the reality of parenthood as a responsible adult and being unready and unprepared for the reality of life and then getting knocked up.

If you can't pay your own way, you can't afford a kid, period. But, if you can pay your own way and enough consistently left over for diapers and day care, that's about as good as you can expect in a middle income family--because you never know what might happen...illness, injury, etc can change okay financials into royally effed in a heartbeat.

Hubby and I both had decent jobs and a good income when we had kids (we even had "free" kids, medical cost wise...and there was still a sticker shock). We planned for him to stay in the military, and for me to get out and go to school and get a job. We ended up with both of us out of the military, me in school, and underemployment for about 4 years (for the first 2 years, both of us, for the second, just me). We are apparently (just now) "upper middle" or "lower upper" class, income wise...and we are still paying off those 4 years where we couldn't make ends meet.

Our kids are just now at the age where they notice a difference between something from the thrift store and something brand new. Chickadee is just now starting to care on some things (somethings are cooler from a thrift store, some are less cool). And she's just now at the point where she's interested in things like girl scouts and gymnastics (which, luckily, we are now at the point that we can afford it)...which is also why we are done having kids--I want my kids to have a childhood where they can do what I got to do as a kid.

[nbdy]

Re: The Effects of Children

All of the above, but one other thing: no matter when you choose to have children there will be advantages and disadvantages. We had our first child when I was nearly 31, and have since had 2 more. I was nearing 40 when the surprise package arrived. We are now in our 50s, and the oldest is nowhere near financial independence, the youngest is in middle school. The arthritis struck with a vengeance in my 40s, so the youngest didn't have a mommy who ran with her and climbed trees with her and such. Didn't see that coming. If we are lucky we should be able to retire by age 70. Just something to think about when you are waiting for the right time.

Hate to end it down. Here's a wonderful story about being a new parent -- I was taking him out in the stroller for fresh air, I guess he was about 2-3 months old. He got very excited as we left but then was calm. He got very excited at the same place when we returned. I love a mystery. After checking baby I realized that he was excited by what he was seeing, so I looked up. We were under a big live oak tree and the wind was blowing the leaves so that they glittered and sparkled like some wild undulating river of silver and green. Why had I never looked up? I said, "You are right" and spread his blanket beneath the tree. We laid there for the rest of the afternoon looking at the sunlit leaves blowing in the wind.

[DanieMarie]

Re: The Effects of Children

You never have enough money to have a kid, and you are never prepared for it. Period. Ever.

No matter how much money you make, you will never have enough money to raise your child because your income plays alot into what your socioeconomic class's social (and therefore fiscal)responsibilities are for your child---public vs private school, multiple extra lessons or sports, girl/boy scouts vs debutante balls, thrift store vs brand name vs designer, you name it.

But. If you don't have the money when they are young, but expect to be in a better position later, they don't notice it when they are little...and you've (probably) raised them to not overvalue money or things.

With the exception of paying for daycare if you work all day and college, once you get the basic kid paraphanalia, you can reuse it (and much of it you can probably get as gifts from baby showers...but you don't need nearly as much as people think they do, even for a baby.

Yeah, that`s sort of what I`m thinking, but it`s still a bit scary. I know that we`ll never feel like we`re ready financially, but at this particular moment, we`re struggling to feed ourselves. Soooo....

I think it`s handy here in Germany, because we do get a child benefit and university is almost completely free (only minimal student fees and no tuition). We don`t believe in private school (seriously, even if I had the money, I wouldn`t send my kids there and neither would the BF...we both think private school shouldn`t even exist) and we live in a country where public school is decent. If we move back to Berlin, there is some state funding for daycare, so that makes it a lot more affordable. I guess we shouldn`t worry so much, but worrying is what I do these days.

- - - Updated - - -

All of the above, but one other thing: no matter when you choose to have children there will be advantages and disadvantages. We had our first child when I was nearly 31, and have since had 2 more. I was nearing 40 when the surprise package arrived. We are now in our 50s, and the oldest is nowhere near financial independence, the youngest is in middle school. The arthritis struck with a vengeance in my 40s, so the youngest didn't have a mommy who ran with her and climbed trees with her and such. Didn't see that coming. If we are lucky we should be able to retire by age 70. Just something to think about when you are waiting for the right time.

Hate to end it down. Here's a wonderful story about being a new parent -- I was taking him out in the stroller for fresh air, I guess he was about 2-3 months old. He got very excited as we left but then was calm. He got very excited at the same place when we returned. I love a mystery. After checking baby I realized that he was excited by what he was seeing, so I looked up. We were under a big live oak tree and the wind was blowing the leaves so that they glittered and sparkled like some wild undulating river of silver and green. Why had I never looked up? I said, "You are right" and spread his blanket beneath the tree. We laid there for the rest of the afternoon looking at the sunlit leaves blowing in the wind.

That`s a really beautiful story

[Heka]

When it comes down to it, I don't know if you're ever really 100% ready for a baby. At least, that's the idea I get from friends who have had kids (and as I am 30, I know a lot of people with children!) I think being able to handle stress and feeling confident enough to be a role model help, though. We have that down....it's just the money thing. It's still super scary as far as responsibility is concerned, but good scary.

That being said, if I remember rightly, you're 23? To each their own, but I'd give it another couple of years at least. You settle into yourself a lot more in your mid/late 20s and there are so many great childless experiences to have in your 20s....doooo it!

Yeah I'm 23. And yeah I get a lot of people telling me to wait, which I understand. Im not planning on being pregnant till im 24 (next june) and then hubby will be 26, nearly 27. And we want kids. Ive wanted them since I was 18. Hubby hasn't, but the fact that he is starting to look st it for next year makes me see that we are more ready.

Experience wise, yeah theres heaps to do in your 20s, but I always wanted 2 kids before I was 30 haha. And we have travelled etc. We're spending 6 weeks in europe at the end of this year as you know. I've been once before, he's been twice, we've been to indonesia and we intend to take our kids there as much as possible. We've both also seen nearly all of Australia, so travelwise, we feel fairly covered lol.

Work/financially, we both work full time, have for 2 years now, own one house, rent another, have two private vehicles, hubby has a business with a brand new truck. We've been raising two fur babies and one scale baby for up to 6 years now, have private health insurance, all home/contents/vehicle insurance etc, hubby even has life insurance. And we put about $400+ into savings a fortnight, plus lately hubby has been putting $1000 into the europe fund each month, and I have $5000 already in a 'shit sashas pregnant fund' which will hopefully turn into a college fund. And I fully intend to public school my children (as a public school teacher myself).

Not to mention we've been together 7 years, married two, living 'together' 4. We've got our house etc sorted. Hell we just spend 26 grand on bathrokm renovations.

That looks like I'm trying to convince someone lol, I guess in a way I'm trying to convince myself. But these aren't our issues. Our issues are loyalty to the people who just gave me a permanant job, and trying to live with my husband full time, but we're working on it.

I know babies will change everything, but I'm excited for the change

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: The Effects of Children

We never had any money when ours were little. It was always a huge problem. But I did have time. 'Oodles of time,' as Hannibal Lector would say. And I learned skills we needed - quilting, knitting, improving my sewing. Many of my children's happy memories include the things we did with no money - a picnic with a couple of marmite sandwiches and a bottle of water. Looking in phone boxes to see if anyone had forgotten their change. Sharing one bag of chips between at least six of us...

And the weirdest thing was that all their friends wanted to come with us too. So did their parents (most of whom were actually pretty well off). They seemed to think that, having so many children (well, by modern standards anyway) I wouldn't notice one or two more... I still have my large family (well, most of it, but that's another tale) plus an extended number of 'honorary' sons and nephews out in India. And it's still growing...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: The Effects of Children

I know babies will change everything, but I'm excited for the change

You will love it!

[DanieMarie]

Re: The Effects of Children

Yeah I'm 23. And yeah I get a lot of people telling me to wait, which I understand. Im not planning on being pregnant till im 24 (next june) and then hubby will be 26, nearly 27. And we want kids. Ive wanted them since I was 18. Hubby hasn't, but the fact that he is starting to look st it for next year makes me see that we are more ready.

Experience wise, yeah theres heaps to do in your 20s, but I always wanted 2 kids before I was 30 haha. And we have travelled etc. We're spending 6 weeks in europe at the end of this year as you know. I've been once before, he's been twice, we've been to indonesia and we intend to take our kids there as much as possible. We've both also seen nearly all of Australia, so travelwise, we feel fairly covered lol.

Work/financially, we both work full time, have for 2 years now, own one house, rent another, have two private vehicles, hubby has a business with a brand new truck. We've been raising two fur babies and one scale baby for up to 6 years now, have private health insurance, all home/contents/vehicle insurance etc, hubby even has life insurance. And we put about $400+ into savings a fortnight, plus lately hubby has been putting $1000 into the europe fund each month, and I have $5000 already in a 'shit sashas pregnant fund' which will hopefully turn into a college fund. And I fully intend to public school my children (as a public school teacher myself).

Not to mention we've been together 7 years, married two, living 'together' 4. We've got our house etc sorted. Hell we just spend 26 grand on bathrokm renovations.

That looks like I'm trying to convince someone lol, I guess in a way I'm trying to convince myself. But these aren't our issues. Our issues are loyalty to the people who just gave me a permanant job, and trying to live with my husband full time, but we're working on it.

I know babies will change everything, but I'm excited for the change

Fair enough. Sounds like you really want them! I wasn`t really trying to lecture you...I`m sorry if it came off that way. Everyone`s different and it sounds like you`re in a much better place at your age than most people I know were at that time.

I knew you were on your way over here, but I hadn`t realized you`d travelled so much already! I moved to Europe when I was 21 and even I didn`t do that much travelling by 23!

[Heka]

Fair enough. Sounds like you really want them! I wasn`t really trying to lecture you...I`m sorry if it came off that way. Everyone`s different and it sounds like you`re in a much better place at your age than most people I know were at that time.

I knew you were on your way over here, but I hadn`t realized you`d travelled so much already! I moved to Europe when I was 21 and even I didn`t do that much travelling by 23!

Yeah I didnt see it as a lecture, it was more a response to everyones posts and comments, I just quoted you cos it was most relevant to me and I have to quote to reply lol.

But yeah, lots of travel. And we are planning our future holidays around the age of the kids. Eg hubby hasnt been to Tasmania, so we plan a trip for their food and wine festival for when we have a very young child, and we will head to the top of oz when we have a few young kids so they can enjoy seeing the crocs haha

[Ticklebits]

Re: The Effects of Children

Honestly when it comes to having kids having loads of money isnt the most important thing. Of course their are social and cultural financial expectations and of course you can never truly be prepared for raising a child but women have been having babies since forever and they didnt always have the arguably "necessary" modern amenities. Babies NEED food, diapers, somewhere to sleep, carseat and/or stroller and sane parents. Thats added cost but its not the "omg SO expensive" that its cracked up to be. Like a previous poster said, kids dont even notice youre poor until later so that gives you time to get motivated and improve your situation if need be.
Another previous poster mentioned how so many young parents are angry and always yelling at their kids in public. To me, it seems like age isnt even a factor. Bad parenting is everywhere and its so sad. Everyone focuses on being financially "ready" for kids but nobody THAT is something a person can fix. A persons character is pretty hard to change. A sane, loving, consistent parent (or preferably set of parents) is priceless.