Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

[Rowanwood]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

Honestly? Have you seen the "witches" they hand pick for laugh value every Halloween to interview on the news as a "real witch" and then we have hucksters selling tarot card readings for $19.99 and spells in jars on ebay...teenagers in black lipstick talking about black magic and all this gets heaped on the pile of paganism long before anyone talks to someone who's dressed like a regular person and lives a regular life and doesn't just run about shouting "look at me! I'm special I'm a pagan!"

Frankly, I could care less if people think my beliefs are valid or not. I don't need a pat on the back to feel confident in my faith and I really don't even need any external validation at all at this point. But I do remember how it felt, wanting to be respected and taken seriously. The best way, in my opinion, to do that is one person at a time. I have many typically Christian types as friends, some of whom I don't take their beliefs very seriously internally, but I respect them as human beings enough not to tell them I think they believe a lie. And they do the same for me. That's really the best you can hope for; tolerance and respect of other people, if not respect of beliefs that they/you have already rejected as false.

[GardenOfShadows]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

I think Pagan faiths could use some reforming. Like if a kindred of Asatru decided to get together and buy a building to turn into a Asatru/Pagan temple of sorts. That goes for all Pagan faiths imo, if they had meeting places available and a group going around and having a positive pagan presence in the community,you'd see growth.

I really like this Idea! I guess people would have to organize enough for the demand for a temple (for any tradition) and people would have to go through the process of being trained as priests.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly? Have you seen the "witches" they hand pick for laugh value every Halloween to interview on the news as a "real witch" and then we have hucksters selling tarot card readings for $19.99 and spells in jars on ebay...teenagers in black lipstick talking about black magic and all this gets heaped on the pile of paganism long before anyone talks to someone who's dressed like a regular person and lives a regular life and doesn't just run about shouting "look at me! I'm special I'm a pagan!"

Frankly, I could care less if people think my beliefs are valid or not. I don't need a pat on the back to feel confident in my faith and I really don't even need any external validation at all at this point. But I do remember how it felt, wanting to be respected and taken seriously. The best way, in my opinion, to do that is one person at a time. I have many typically Christian types as friends, some of whom I don't take their beliefs very seriously internally, but I respect them as human beings enough not to tell them I think they believe a lie. And they do the same for me. That's really the best you can hope for; tolerance and respect of other people, if not respect of beliefs that they/you have already rejected as false.

Yeah, it's amazing the kinds of people that are found and made to be the "face" of Paganism. :=L:

I guess my thing is that I hate being thought of as a "fluff-bunny" or "baby-Pagan" who is just viewed as another person who only Pagan to be "cool". With the exception of the group who congregate at the local UU church, no one else I know thinks Paganism is real. They all think it's long dead, not authentic, or just people running around in black robes and party city Halloween skulls.

[Jera]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

I heard an opinion once from somebody that they couldn't take Paganism seriously because its followers worshipped "storybook gods" like the Greek, Roman and Egyptian pantheons. They found it hilarious that people in this day and age still worship Jesus, let alone deities from ancient cultures that we now generally see portrayed in fictional stories, video games and movie franchises. However, this opinion DID come from a hardened atheist.

[Gleb]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

Lack of numbers
Lack of established unbroken tradition
Umbrella term
Lack of clear codification
Thal's point + lack of numbers makes for an image problem because there aren't enough serious Pagans to consistently offset the image provided by the less serious

I think Pagan faiths could use some reforming. Like if a kindred of Asatru decided to get together and buy a building to turn into a Asatru/Pagan temple of sorts. That goes for all Pagan faiths imo, if they had meeting places available and a group going around and having a positive pagan presence in the community,you'd see growth.

I second MaskedOne and Doc here.
Not enough people, serious people by the way. And no place to go to.

[thalassa]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

Thal's point + lack of numbers makes for an image problem because there aren't enough serious Pagans to consistently offset the image provided by the less serious

I second MaskedOne and Doc here.
Not enough people, serious people by the way. And no place to go to.

I'm going to agree and disagree with both of these.

I know I said because too many Pagans aren't serious about their faith (and I stand by that statement)...and I agree that there is a problem with offsetting the image of the less serious. But I disagree that the problem is the lack of numbers so much as the nature of ratings driven media. The wierdos make the news because they are interesting. The rest of us are pretty boring. Add to that number of people that are serious about their religious beliefs that are afraid to be open about them. You don't find the rest of us unless you look for us. And how many people have cause or compunction to go hunting for serious Paganism? Much less from an unbiased light?

There are enough serious Pagans. They just aren't visible enough.

The problem is that we sit in our own spaces and have our own dialogues and never engage beyond that. And when people DO want to do things that take them out of our spaces and engage beyond them, we become nay-sayers---everything from "well that's not *exactly* what I believe so I won't support you" to "I don't believe in paying for god" to "its pandering to the establishment" to "I don't like X person" to *whatever-excuse-here*.

The problem is that not enough Pagans live outside the "Pagan Bubble" and those that do can't possible garner enough attention to combat the Laurie Cabot-wanna bes.

[underthesun]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

I think it also depends on the types of people that you are interacting with, honestly. Generally speaking, I completely agree that it seems pagans and witches in general are laughed at more than taken seriously, but I do think that there are certain groups more inclined to treat various pagan religions with respect. As GardenofShadows pointed out, members of UU congregations seem to be more openminded and respectful, at least in my experience. I've seen much less eye-rolling and far fewer laughs coming from my Hindu friends, too, though I imagine that's to be expected considering Hinduism is often under the umbrella term 'pagan'. Still, even those non-Hindu Indian friends I have have expressed similar respect... at least, in all of the vague conversations where I've brought up the general idea of pagan paths. I'll admit I've never straight-out told someone my personal beliefs.

[lightdragon]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

Yeah, it's amazing the kinds of people that are found and made to be the "face" of Paganism. :=L:

I guess my thing is that I hate being thought of as a "fluff-bunny" or "baby-Pagan" who is just viewed as another person who only Pagan to be "cool". With the exception of the group who congregate at the local UU church, no one else I know thinks Paganism is real. They all think it's long dead, not authentic, or just people running around in black robes and party city Halloween skulls.

part of the problem is serious pagans will not bother with the media

I heard an opinion once from somebody that they couldn't take Paganism seriously because its followers worshipped "storybook gods" like the Greek, Roman and Egyptian pantheons. They found it hilarious that people in this day and age still worship Jesus, let alone deities from ancient cultures that we now generally see portrayed in fictional stories, video games and movie franchises. However, this opinion DID come from a hardened atheist.

militant atheists they go just as hard on pagans as they do on Christians. but only if they feel someone might try out paganism. otherwise they usually go after Christians. or try to get people to believe in nothing. a lot of Christians do that as well. best example was former president George W.Bush said Wicca wasn't a real religion. I have seen more of this offline with Christians. usually they do this if they can not do more damage.

I also agree with Masked one and Doc. there needs to be more structure to it. I do know when Wicca began they didn't want it as controlling as the Christian church as that was one of the reasons some people left as there was too much dogma. here there is not enough. I do know there was some opposition on that. then of course you had infighting on would be the correct way to do this and that.

[satanic witch]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

Why isn't paganism tooken seriously? Because one u have the big three monotheistic religions who nearly wiped out paganism calling It a false religion all the while brainwashing the masses with a monotheistic ideology ripped right out of paganism . Give or take hundreds of years u have a massive religion full of brainwashed folk who will do what u tell them , and why ain't paganism tooken seriously ? Well that is because to most people the old gods are myths and lies. Personally I'm a proud pagan and I give honor to my pagan ancestors even if some puffed up ignorant person tells me my gods are fake

[Medusa]

Re: Why isn't Paganism really treated as a serious spiritual path?

I'll do the dirty work for Mal.
Well obviously the evil Christians are to blame.

There. Let's stop dragging the cat through the water and just dunk her up.

[Heka]

I'll do the dirty work for Mal.
Well obviously the evil Christians are to blame.

There. Let's stop dragging the cat through the water and just dunk her up.

That's call animal cruelty, you gotta be humane. Good work Duce