Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

My friend's brother is with CARE International in southern Turkey, helping Syrian refugees. Her son is career Army so who knows where he is. I wish people could just get along.

I heard on the news (unconfirmed) that the ISIS folks had something planned involving airplanes and explosives in the sizes allowed for carry-on. Get ready to be forced to buy all new toiletries every time you fly, if this is true.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

In my opinion (Since what emotional and personality/mental traits make a human a human is purely a psychological question, so this is very debatable.) A human is rounded, we all have savage sides sure. But a human, or somebody who is more human than scum has all sorts of sides. Happy, sad, giving, taking, forgiving, vengeful. Thats the human experience and what makes a human, not "KILL, KILL MY ENEMIES, CAUSE TERROR, KILL THOSE WHO DISAGREE, SLAUGHTER INNOCENTS."

Inhuman to me.

I don't wholly agree. Humanity is savagery. Humanity is joy, and grace, and agility. Humanity is love, and sadness, and grief. Humanity is brutality, creativity, and intellect. But we are all these things. We are jealous, and pious, we are ruthless, and merciless. We are many things. A terrorist is no less human than an activist, no less human than a pacifist. We all see the world in a different way. That way is neither right nor wrong, it just is. That doesn't mean that I think people should be bombing other countries, exactly. But in the minds of the terrorists, they are doing what they feel is right. It's their existence, and their truth.

The main reason they should be stopped is not because of their brutality, or their savagery, but because they wish to destroy the only real thing that should matter to humans: life. Not just the life of one, or two innocents...but ALL life.

But that doesn't make them any less human. Or us any more human.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

But that doesn't make them any less human. Or us any more human.

Sadly true...but I think part of a person choosing to participate in life is either being involved or trying to support those willing to risk themselves in the name of battling savagery, horrors, abuse and murder. This happens every day, from soldiers to doctors to people just being nice to each other and not running about punching people in the face over irritations.

Sometimes it is easy to only see these horrors and want to just stay under the covers and say 'no' but I can't live like that, yet I also refuse to ignore that darkness we all carry around inside.

All we can do is weigh what is best for the continuation of life and say -- Once more unto the breach, dear friends....whether its with a gun or open arms....

[anunitu]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

strangely,or perhaps not so strangely when we see people doing these kind of things in the name of their god,it makes a case that no God exists. If humans have to force others to follow their so called God inspired rules,then it is their own addled mind that they need to tend to. If indeed we had an all powerful God,he would not have created humans as messed up as we are.

I know,"original sin" a very convenient explanation for us messed up humans. One fact is always true,we have the ability to NOT commit evil,and if we do,it is on US alone.
To blame some demon(The devil made me do it) is utter BS. If we understand the darkness inside us,we may learn to control that darkness.
God did not decide to drop the bomb on Japan,and God did not decide to bomb Pearl harbor....

[loststarshine]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

To blame some demon(The devil made me do it) is utter BS. If we understand the darkness inside us,we may learn to control that darkness.
God did not decide to drop the bomb on Japan,and God did not decide to bomb Pearl harbor....

I used to not be in favor of this still a vet I took care of told me that bomb saved him and his mens lives. I agree blaming some evil being is bs. As far as the christian god goes I could never understand where the exceptiins were after thou shall not kill.

[anunitu]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

Just cause...

From way back,but still relevant.

- - - Updated - - -

Just to add this little tidbit..."Sometimes you just need to blow something up"...even if you are non violent...

[Aislin]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

This is a damned if you do, damned if you dont, type of situation...

If we do go in, neutralize the threat, lots of people will die...

If we do nothing a lot more people will die...

Its going to have to play out, whether we like it or not, unless the Radical Muslim Jihad, mass murdering Terrorists suddenly decide to throw down their bombs and start singing kumbaya... But hate breeds hate, on both sides.

Im not saying the western governments are innocent. Its a huge mess, and no ones hands are clean in this war...

[ChainLightning]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

Righteous. Humane. Fair. Compassionate. Honorable. Virtuous.

And a whole host of wonderful things that a person can possess, on either side of any given fence, and not be recognized, even remotely, by a person on the other side of said given fence, are not at all possessed, maintained or even supported by people. There's a very accurate quote, that I won't bother digging up, about how intelligent a "person" can be versus how stupid, superstitious and fearful that "people" are.

Terrorism thrives on creating and perpetuating terror. Whether we (in a vague, general sense) are the victims or the perpetrators, it amounts to the same thing, depending on one's own perspective of the events. Atrocities are a wonderful tool for the more enlightened to condemn the "less civilized", so to speak, but I can't help notice that atrocity is unavoidable. Meaning that it is a perpetual human trait, though often suppressed, one way or another.

I find it disturbing, to hear that parts of Syria are now being targeted, with overt acts of war. Just as I find it disturbing that ISIL, or groups like it, could get away with so MANY goddamn human rights violations, undeterred. I'm shaken, to the very core, over what humans can do to one another, to the point that I literally wish an end to humankind and its arrogant self-proclaimed virtue of stewardship.

I loath the fact that the US is dropping even more bombs in the middle east but I loath terror organizations even more. My biggest problem is trying to discern THEM from any given government, like the US gooberment. So, I turn my eyes skyward and search, longingly, for the massive meteor or comet that will one day bring the illusion of humanity to its epic demise.





Sorry. I probably shouldn't be posting, on this.

[loststarshine]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

^^ Yep. Humankind makes me digusted I am a member of the species sometimes. I wonder how long we can continue before we wipe our selfs out.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

^^^Yep from me too. When too many fringe groups take action, there's not much fabric of society left.

[Heka]

I'm shaken, to the very core, over what humans can do to one another, to the point that I literally wish an end to humankind and its arrogant self-proclaimed virtue of stewardship.

This

So, I turn my eyes skyward and search, longingly, for the massive meteor or comet that will one day bring the illusion of humanity to its epic demise.

And this

And my friend created this recently, which he captioned:

"Great cosmic woman, eating the souls of everyone killing in the name of religion, sorry guys, not the virgin you expected eh, you are in for a surprise... get in the pot."

Erik Perkins-Grauze

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

OBviously, I'm going to be waaay outnumbered in my views here. Nevertheless, I'd like to point out something that is often missed in the desire to dish out some sort of justice. Bombing kills the innocent and the guilty. It creates resentments that you and I cannot begin to imagine, from people we would have thought should have been 'grateful' for our intervention.

Please, do not expect people in the Middle East to be 'grateful' - the chances are that most of them will not. War creates strange allegiances. At the end of WW2, people in Eastern Poland for example, were hoping the Germans would reach them before the Russians, while in Western Poland it was much the opposite.

And in Holland, no sooner had the Allies driven out the Nazi occupiers, than the signs went up everywhere, 'Now that we have been liberated, who will liberate us from the liberators?'

It's a funny old thing, gratitude.

[anunitu]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

I do wonder if the fear being generated will end with rounding up the image of a people we fear. Happened back in the second world war,and then we had the commie freakout and the black listing. Never underestimate the panic and fear factor here in the good old US of A...

[Rowanwood]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

I just find it sad that the favored solutions here are:

1. Do nothing/Pretend it isn't happening
2. Blow up the entire human race

There's just a depth of cynicism there that makes me feel disheartened. They are both the mentality that there can be no progress, no change, no participation in life unless it is perfect.

But I look at it different....

“When we talk about settling the world's problems, we're barking up the wrong tree. The world is perfect. It's a mess. It has always been a mess. We are not going to change it. Our job is to straighten out our own lives.” ~Joseph Cambell

And our own lives can indeed include participation in whatever small or enormous thing we are drawn to. Stopping a terrorist or saving a kitten. But giving up? That's just not an option to me, no matter how appealing it seems sometimes.

[loststarshine]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

What is choice 3? How do you negotiate with people that dont want to. Truthfully?