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  • #31
    Re: Rune of the Month

    Okay, here goes. The first big problem we have is that the Elder Futhark (which is what most people mean when they talk about runes and rune reading) contains runes that cannot be found in three of the rune poems, but only in the Old English Rune Poem (aka The Anglo-Saxon Rune Poem and I'll refer to it henceforth as the OERP)
    So basically we are playing pick'n'mix a bit here. Using meanings from Norse and Icelandic Rune Poems (which have a rather different background and culture) when possible and the OERP when it isn't.
    Why does this matter? Well, because the OERP has a very different way of doing things. Because it's background is different (really, really different I promise) and because it needs to build up stage by stage to our understanding. This particular rune is number 19 meaning we are already well over half way.

    Now, by the time we reach this stage in our reading, we realise that the OERP works on several levels. You can read it for what it seems to be. And I think this was intentional. If we want to go no further, then here is a meaning. Not 'the' meaning, but 'a' meaning. If we want to go further of course then we should. And if we do, we find that the nobles/earls etc referred to in the poem are not 'nobles' as such, but an elite. And not a warrior elite (unless we want to go that way with the meaning) but a spiritual elite, and the horse is the vehicle of their journey. The Rad rune has a lot to say about this, too. And this is what I mean, that it is starting to build up an entire set of meanings, rune on rune.

    That's a start, anyway!
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Rune of the Month

      I've had a thought, and was wondering what you all think of it, as it is to be a collaboration of the rune-workers here on PF. What do you think about creating our own rune-poems?

      I've been spending quite some time learning how to write the skaldic dróttkvœtt, and feel that I've gotten a pretty good handle on it. My thought was running along these lines: If we could come up with two sentences that embody an overview of each rune, I'd love to take that and convert it over into that poetic style. Once finished, we would have a complete poem for all runes, that is reflective of these times and our views.

      Thoughts?
      "The streams called Ice-waves, those which were so long come from the fountain-heads that the yeasty venom upon them had hardened like the slag that runs out of the fire, - these then became ice; and when the ice halted and ceased to run, then it froze over above. But the drizzling rain that rose from the venom congealed to rime, and the rime increased, frost over frost, each over the other, even into Ginnungagap, the Yawning Void. Ginnungagap, which faced toward the northern quarter, became filled with heaviness, and masses of ice and rime, and from within, drizzling rain and gusts; but the southern part of the Yawning Void was lighted by those sparks and glowing masses which flew out of Múspellheim. Just as cold arose out of Niflheim, and all terrible things, so also all that looked toward Múspellheim became hot and glowing; but Ginnungagap was as mild as windless air, and when the breath of heat met the rime, so that it melted and dripped, life was quickened from the yeast-drops, by the power of that which sent the heat, and became a man's form. And that man is named Ymir, but the Rime-Giants call him Aurgelimir" - The Gylfaginning

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Rune of the Month

        Originally posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
        I've had a thought, and was wondering what you all think of it, as it is to be a collaboration of the rune-workers here on PF. What do you think about creating our own rune-poems?

        I've been spending quite some time learning how to write the skaldic dróttkvœtt, and feel that I've gotten a pretty good handle on it. My thought was running along these lines: If we could come up with two sentences that embody an overview of each rune, I'd love to take that and convert it over into that poetic style. Once finished, we would have a complete poem for all runes, that is reflective of these times and our views.

        Thoughts?
        To be honest, it's not something I would do - it's a bit like a camel being a horse designed by a committee Writing an entire rune poem for oneself I think could work, though again, not for me. But I'm happy for others to give it a go.
        www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


        Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Rune of the Month

          Originally posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
          My thought was running along these lines: If we could come up with two sentences that embody an overview of each rune, I'd love to take that and convert it over into that poetic style. Once finished, we would have a complete poem for all runes, that is reflective of these times and our views.
          I'm a novice with the Runes but for what it's worth, I think this project idea is amazing.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Rune of the Month

            Ác

            Elder Futhark: -
            Younger Futhark: -
            Anglo Saxon Futhorc: Ác, meaning 'oak'

            Phonetic value: 'a'

            Pronunciation:
            In Old English, 'Ác' is pronounced 'aak'. The accented 'a' is like that in 'father' but drawn out a bit longer, which is why I say it's pronounced 'aa' rather than just 'a'. A nice easy one

            Note:
            We have a purely Anglo Saxon rune today! There is no directly equivalent rune in either the Elder or Younger futharks. This is one of the situations where the Anglo Saxon Futhorc has expanded on a rune from the the Elder Futhark, probably because of the changes in lanuage. The Elder Futhark has six vowel sounds, while the Anglo Saxon Futhorc has ten (the Younger Futhark has only four)... the extra Anglo Saxon runes represent diphthongs (combined vowel sounds) that weren't found in Old Norse and Proto Germanic. Each new rune then took on a meaning that wasn't necessarily represented in the Elder or Younger Futharks.

            The 'a' runes in the Elder and younger Futharks are Ansuz and Ás, but their meanings are cognate to the Anglo Saxon Ós rune (the 'o' rune, just to be confusing) so I'll put them all together when I pull Ansuz.


            Now you all reply and add your insights... if you don't use Anglo Saxon runes, look it up and see what you think about the extra rune and what it might represent. How does that meaning fit into the Futhark that you use? If you had this rune in your set, how might you interpret it?

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Rune of the Month

              coolness, link in place.
              "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
              ―Thon

              "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

              Yoda

              Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Rune of the Month

                Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                coolness, link in place.
                Cheers, MO. You're a legend. I mean, you know... infamous Eldritch Horror who eats people's souls. Not nice at all. Nope.

                - - - Updated - - -

                Originally posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
                I've had a thought, and was wondering what you all think of it, as it is to be a collaboration of the rune-workers here on PF. What do you think about creating our own rune-poems?

                I've been spending quite some time learning how to write the skaldic dróttkvœtt, and feel that I've gotten a pretty good handle on it. My thought was running along these lines: If we could come up with two sentences that embody an overview of each rune, I'd love to take that and convert it over into that poetic style. Once finished, we would have a complete poem for all runes, that is reflective of these times and our views.

                Thoughts?
                I think this is a good idea, but I actively dislike poetry. So if folks want to do this I think it would be a great addition to this thread and would provide some really valuable insight for everyone. It's not something that I would be interested in taking part in myself, though.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Rune of the Month

                  Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                  Ác

                  Elder Futhark: -
                  Younger Futhark: -
                  Anglo Saxon Futhorc: Ác, meaning 'oak'

                  Phonetic value: 'a'

                  Pronunciation:
                  In Old English, 'Ác' is pronounced 'aak'. The accented 'a' is like that in 'father' but drawn out a bit longer, which is why I say it's pronounced 'aa' rather than just 'a'. A nice easy one

                  Note:
                  We have a purely Anglo Saxon rune today! There is no directly equivalent rune in either the Elder or Younger futharks. This is one of the situations where the Anglo Saxon Futhorc has expanded on a rune from the the Elder Futhark, probably because of the changes in lanuage. The Elder Futhark has six vowel sounds, while the Anglo Saxon Futhorc has ten (the Younger Futhark has only four)... the extra Anglo Saxon runes represent diphthongs (combined vowel sounds) that weren't found in Old Norse and Proto Germanic. Each new rune then took on a meaning that wasn't necessarily represented in the Elder or Younger Futharks.

                  The 'a' runes in the Elder and younger Futharks are Ansuz and Ás, but their meanings are cognate to the Anglo Saxon Ós rune (the 'o' rune, just to be confusing) so I'll put them all together when I pull Ansuz.


                  Now you all reply and add your insights... if you don't use Anglo Saxon runes, look it up and see what you think about the extra rune and what it might represent. How does that meaning fit into the Futhark that you use? If you had this rune in your set, how might you interpret it?
                  There's quite a bit of prejudice against the AS runes, but they really do repay some study. And as I've probably said before, whatever Futhark/Futhorc you use, it's worth really looking into the background and then trying to work through them as a whole.

                  In case you don't have a copy of the translation, there is one here https://www.ragweedforge.com/rpae.html
                  However, there is no single translation of the various stanzas and that's important too, because they are open to interpretation. And each stanze has several layers of meaning.

                  So, what do you think?
                  www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                  Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Rune of the Month

                    The AS rune poem speaks about both acorns (fattening the pigs) and oak wood as used to build ships. To me this refers to it's usefullness to men and it's flexibility as a resource. As 'oak' we also have to think about strength, endurance and unyeilding power. I've also seen Ac described as a lightning rod, as an axis mundi, and as an oaken staff (weapon and symbol of power).

                    This all translates into rune galdr and magick easily, but what about divination? How would one interpret this rune if it came up in a reading or cast?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Rune of the Month

                      For me the OERP isn't just an aid to divination or magic - it follows the way of much other AS poetry, in that it's also a spiritual guide. Bearing in mind that it was written down during the post Conversion period, this could still be based on a much earlier, heathen tradition. For me the way of interpreting it would depend upon any other runes present. Personally I tend to use just three at a time, pulling more if I need clarification. And I never ever ask the querent what their question is - which again I believe is implied in the entire nature of the Rune Poem itself.

                      So... I believe that oaks are actually about religious faith, about sacredness. The trees are sacred in so many different cultures, associated with Thor, Perkunas, Zeus and others. So it's a very good cloak for Thor I feel, and for the nature of what is sacred and what is secular - part of the usual game playing we find in AS poetry. But oaks were also used as metaphors for Christianity (as were other trees) and this would have enabled the Rune Poem to overcome any charges of heresy from over zealous clergy.

                      And Rae'ya is right, we CAN interpret it as strength, power, and endurance. But it can also be associated with journeys (hence the ship) and not just secular journeys, but spiritual ones too. The whole of the Rune Poem is a tapestry of allusions to other poems (Ac appears for example in the Exeter Riddle Book) and polarising light and shade etc.

                      So, for me at least (and I probably sound really vague on this, but I'm not, honestly) the way we interpret this rune will depend on what falls next to it, the overall pattern. Is there a mixture of light and dark? Are there other runes of journeying in the spread? Are we talking about a physical journey, or a journey of the soul?

                      Or are we talking about power - and what it achieves? Does it have a responsibility to feed the lowest creatures? Well, it might, especially if it appeared next to Feoh with its 'lots of doom' warning.

                      Can you imagine what my rune readings are like??? They are like a story... with the runes as prompts, taking the querent on a journey through light and dark, pain and joy, fear and courage.

                      Hope this helps (and doesn't confuse) but please ask if you want me to clarify and I'll do my best.
                      www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                      Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I think you should do a big rune video Mrs. P
                        ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                        RIP

                        I have never been across the way
                        Seen the desert and the birds
                        You cut your hair short
                        Like a shush to an insult
                        The world had been yelling
                        Since the day you were born
                        Revolting with anger
                        While it smiled like it was cute
                        That everything was shit.

                        - J. Wylder

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Rune of the Month

                          I'm in the midst of writing a 'big rune book' at the moment, Heka!
                          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Rune of the Month

                            This is probably a good place to ask ourselves a question...

                            Why do you use the Futhark/orc that you use? Is there something deeper than 'that's the one in all the books'? Do you chose based on your cultural framework (Anglo Saxon vs Viking Scandinavia) or language? Or is it something more intuitive?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Rune of the Month

                              Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                              This is probably a good place to ask ourselves a question...

                              Why do you use the Futhark/orc that you use? Is there something deeper than 'that's the one in all the books'? Do you chose based on your cultural framework (Anglo Saxon vs Viking Scandinavia) or language? Or is it something more intuitive?
                              That's a really excellent question. I think many people use the Elder Futhark because it's easier to find books dealing with it. For me, I began with it, but moved over to the Anglo-Saxon Futhorc because I felt it fitted much better into my cultural framework.

                              You see, for me, I needed to be able to understand where the runes were coming from, and where they were going. Otherwise (and again this is a personal feeling and not an accusation levelled at anyone) if we're not careful we never progress beyond the A is for Apple, B is for Book sort of interpretation, and I believe there is far more to the runes (whichever system is used) than that.
                              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                                I'm in the midst of writing a 'big rune book' at the moment, Heka!
                                Whoot whoot!!!
                                ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

                                RIP

                                I have never been across the way
                                Seen the desert and the birds
                                You cut your hair short
                                Like a shush to an insult
                                The world had been yelling
                                Since the day you were born
                                Revolting with anger
                                While it smiled like it was cute
                                That everything was shit.

                                - J. Wylder

                                Comment

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