How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

[Fire Nymph]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

I like your way of thinking Fire Nymph. And I agree with the quality of writing with a lot of debunking articles. The writer more often that not has a bias or an agenda and will manipulate the findings to prove his or her point.

Exactly.

[noinden]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

I like your way of thinking Fire Nymph. And I agree with the quality of writing with a lot of debunking articles. The writer more often that not has a bias or an agenda and will manipulate the findings to prove his or her point.

However a lot of the pseudoscience articles supporting their claims are just as biased as well. I'm a sceptic in that I question everything.

[Moth]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

I don't think that, currently, science has the final answer to everything. Science as a system is fantastic, but still flawed and has been abused (and will continue to be misused, misinterpreted, and misread on a regular basis). That said, going against the grain is something that needs to be done carefully and with emotional honesty, lest you're just fooling yourself and falling prey to natural human flaws and limitations yourself.

When it comes down to it, I'd rather be correct than right. As hard as reality bites, bullshit bites twice as hard in the end.

I also don't think science and spirituality are necessarily at odds with each other. For every precious belief that science threatens to disprove, it also gives added insight into plants, animals, and the Earth that we wouldn't have without rigorous study and modern tools. Just because something isn't discovered through spiritual means doesn't mean it can't contribute to spirituality once it's known.

[nbdy]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

Sort of related

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

Of course people don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of their beliefs. Evolution is an obvious lie.

[AnMa]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

Scientific theories are the best way to explain how this universe works and if the scientific method works correctly, a change in theory is a better explanation than before. That has nothing to do with a religious belief. To me religion is a way of living in this world, not to explain it. There are many believers how believe their belief explains how everything works and that should be the only way to explain anything. Well, let the facts decide that. Facts are facts, you have to deal with them no matter how you feel about them.

My favourite example is a rainbow. We know exactly how this optical phenomenon works. From the right viewing spot it looks like a circle. That "debunks" any idea of crossing it or of finding a pot of gold at its (non-existing) end. Nevertheless, it is beautiful and a perfect mythological image for a bridge into the realm of the Gods. That's how I feel about it.

[Serria]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

I love science. I'm a very science-y person and for me, science only strengthens my beliefs; especially evolution. The fact that nature can somehow create life in a way that we can't figure out, just makes me more awed and impressed. Science can't explain many things so I personally believe there are deities that caused life to begin and shaped the world and events that caused evolution to create us. I think that they set off the Big Bang. I also understand that thought, feelings, and emotion are chemical and electric connections in the brain but I believe in a soul because there's just something about life and sentience that goes beyond chemicals and electricity. There's so much science can't and my never be able to explain and I think it's for a good reason.

Just my two cents.

[Seeking a Religion]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

Science has - or at least has claimed to have - debunked many things, especially in the pseudoscience category. As this is a Pagan forum, it is safe to assume that there are those on this forum who believe in things that are classified as pseudoscience and the paranormal, e.g. crystal healing, reiki, ghosts, Ouija boards, Tarot cards, etc.
Look up any of what I have listed above with the word "debunked" in Google and you will likely find an article or study vehemently disproving these beliefs or practices. So how do you feel when you read these rebuffs? Do you feel your belief or faith shaken? Do you wonder if it is possible that it is the placebo effect, in the case of crystal healing or acupuncture, or simply all in your head, like ghost or UFO sightings?
Are there any beliefs that you previously had but have now discarded due to it being disproved by science, or has the opposite happened and your beliefs stronger still?

Because all of our Modern Science Founders were Bible Believing Creationists and with what current Science has uncovered regarding the Cosmos.....my investigation of the Christian Faith is leading me to believing Christianity is true which would thereby make all competing Religions/philosophies/etc.. null and void. And I don't say this lightly as I have researched a good many other Religions . Quote by the Head of the Human Genome Project , Dr. Francis Shaffer : ' The CHristian Faith and Science are compatible ' .

Thru all my research , I find the Christian Faith is a thinking mans religion not having to discount logic, reason, and reality . I think the problem with Religion is that the Seeker chooses one that best benefits their own desires, urges, status, and power instead of seeking out whether there is objective evidence to what one believes in as confirmed by Scientific scrutiny.

[anunitu]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

Apple is king of tech...and all other brands are flawed because they are not apple...does that sound logical? Mainly because I have stock in apple(not a quote,but just a little fictional story)

BTW,not a fan of apple products..

- - - Updated - - -

Did you mean to quote this guy,and not Francis Shaffer. Dr. Francis S. Collins, head of the Human Genome Project and author of The Language of God

http://edwardfudge.com/gracemails/theistic_evolution.html

Simple mistake to be made because the names are so close in spelling...(Sic)

[habbalah]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

Because all of our Modern Science Founders were Bible Believing Creationists

If you make the statement that "all" of them were Christian, then even proving that one scientist wasn't makes your statement untrue. Also, many of the founders of our modern sciences are far, far older than you think. If you mean all of the scientists working now, that's still a false statement. A few examples:

Alan Turing (founder of computer science, atheist)
Charles Darwin (I'm sure you know who he is, atheist)
Thomas Edison (Same here, atheist)
Albert Einstein (self-named agnostic)
Louis Pasteur (only believed in the spirituality of Catholicism, not the religion)
Democritus (Founder of atomism in cosmology, often called the founder of modern science, lived before Christ).
Jabir ibn Hayyan (Father of early chemistry, Muslim)
Aristotle (Father of biology, lived before Christ)

Saying that Christians don't choose their own scientific benefits is fallacious. There are many Christians who don't believe in evolution or even in the medical sciences. No one religion is based more, or more completely, in science.

[thalassa]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

I believe that Because all many of our Modern Science Founders were Bible Believing Creationists and with what current Science has uncovered regarding the Cosmos.....my investigation of the Christian Faith is leading me to believing Christianity is true which, in my opinion, would thereby make all competing Religions/philosophies/etc...null and void. And I don't say this lightly as I have researched a good many other Religions. I agree with the Quote by the Head of the Human Genome Project , Dr. Francis Shaffer : ' The CHristian Faith and Science are compatible ' .

Thru all my of my personal research , I find that I believe that the Christian Faith is a thinking mans religion not having to discount logic, reason, and reality . I think the problem with Religion is that the Seeker chooses one that best benefits their own desires, urges, status, and power instead of seeking out whether there is objective evidence to what one believes in as confirmed by Scientific scrutiny.

Fixed for accuracy.


With that being said, I think you are wrong. I also think this entire little episode is not your sudden discovery of religion, but rather you showing your true colors. All of your posts here have alluded to this "unveiling" of yours...its not at all an uncommon trolling tactic.

And, in my opinion as a scientist and a theist, I think you have an incomplete and immature understanding of both science and religion.

[anunitu]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

BTW,Francis Shaffer was not a science type,he was more in the vain of a religious zealot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Schaeffer

[Seeking a Religion]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

Apple is king of tech...and all other brands are flawed because they are not apple...does that sound logical? Mainly because I have stock in apple(not a quote,but just a little fictional story)

BTW,not a fan of apple products..

- - - Updated - - -

Did you mean to quote this guy,and not Francis Shaffer. Dr. Francis S. Collins, head of the Human Genome Project and author of The Language of God

http://edwardfudge.com/gracemails/theistic_evolution.html

Simple mistake to be made because the names are so close in spelling...(Sic)

Yes, Collins.....thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

If you make the statement that "all" of them were Christian, then even proving that one scientist wasn't makes your statement untrue. Also, many of the founders of our modern sciences are far, far older than you think. If you mean all of the scientists working now, that's still a false statement. A few examples:

Alan Turing (founder of computer science, atheist)
Charles Darwin (I'm sure you know who he is, atheist)
Thomas Edison (Same here, atheist)
Albert Einstein (self-named agnostic)
Louis Pasteur (only believed in the spirituality of Catholicism, not the religion)
Democritus (Founder of atomism in cosmology, often called the founder of modern science, lived before Christ).
Jabir ibn Hayyan (Father of early chemistry, Muslim)
Aristotle (Father of biology, lived before Christ)

Saying that Christians don't choose their own scientific benefits is fallacious. There are many Christians who don't believe in evolution or even in the medical sciences. No one religion is based more, or more completely, in science.

A List of creation scientists who are / have contributed greatly to science
A list of creation scientists who are/have contributed to science
1) Dr. Raymond Damadian - inventor of MRI device

2) Dr. Raymond Jones - CSIRO Gold Medal, detoxified Leucaena for livestock
consumption

3) Dr. Keith Wanser - 48 published papers, seven U.S. patents
(Professor of Physics, Cal State Fullerton)

4) Dr. Russell Humphreys - successful planetary magnetic predictions
(nuclear physicist, Sandia National Laboratories )

5) Dr. Kurt Wise - Ph.D. in paleontology under Stephen J. Gould at Harvard

6) Jules H. Poirier - designer of radar FM altimeter on Apollo Lunar
Landing Module

7) Dr. Sinaseli Tshibwabwa - discovered 7 new species of fish in the Congo

8) Dr. Saami Shaibani - "International Expert" by the US Depts of Labor and
Justice. 100 published articles (B.A. (Hons), M.A., M.Sc., D.Phil, a
physics professor and researcher)

1) (ID) Dr. Henry F. Schaefer III - five-time Nobel nominee
(professor of chemistry at the University of Georgia)

2) (ID) Dr. William S. Harris - $3.5 million in research grants, over 70
scientific papers, Director of the Lipoprotein Research Laboratory at Saint
Luke’s Hospital. Chair in Metabolism and Vascular Biology and is a
Professor of Medicine at the University of Missouri.

Others:

Dr. Emmett L. Williams, Ph.D. Materials Engineering
Dr. David A. Kaufmann, Ph.D. Anatomy
Dr. Glen W. Wolfrom, Ph.D. Ruminant Nutrition
Dr. Theodore P. Aufdemberge, Ph.D. Physical Geography,
Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Ph.D. Physics
Dr. George F. Howe, Ph.D. Botany
Dr. Wayne F. Frair, Ph.D. Serology
Dr. John R. Meyer, Ph.D. Zoology
Dr. Robert Goette, Ph.D. Chemistry
Dr. Lane Lester -- Ph.D. in genetics from Purdue University
Dr. Andrew Snelling -- Ph.D. in geology, U. of Sydney
Dr. Don Batten, consultant plant physiologist
Dr. Gary Parker, Ed.D. in Biology/Geology, Ball State University
Dr. John Baumgardner, Los Alamos Laboratories
Dr. Donald B. DeYoung, Ph.D., Physics, Grace College, Winona Lake, Indiana
Dr. Eric Norman, Ph.D, Biochemistry, Texas A&M University
Dr. Clifford A. Wilson - Archaeologist, Author of "Crash go the Chariots"
Michael Oard, MS, Atmospheric Science, U. of Washington, meteorologist
Keyoshi Takahashi, Ph.D., Botany - has had research published in Nature.
Dr. Andy McIntosh, Reader in Combustion Theory at Leeds U., U.K.

Dr. George Marshall, Ph.D., Ophthalmic Science, U of Glasgow, Scotland
chartered biologist, member of the Institute of Biology
Dr. Danny Faulkner -- Ph.D. Astronomy, Indiana University, Associate
Professor, U. of South Carolina, Lancaster
Dr. David Menton, Associate Professor of Anatomy, Washington University
School of Medicine, St. Louis, Missouri
Prof. Maciej Giertych, Ph.D.(Toronto), D.Sc.(Poznan), head of the Genetics
Dept. of the Polish Academy of Sciences, Institute of Dendrology, Kornik,
Poland.
Dr. James Allan, M.Sc.Agric., PhD., retired senior lecturer in the Dept. of
Genetics, Univ. of Stellenbosch, South Africa
Dr. Andre Eggen, Ph.D. in animal genetics from the Federal Institute of
Technology in Switzerland, research scientist for the French government
Dr. Brian Stone, Ph.D., Head of the Dept. of Mechanical Engineering,
U. of Western Australia
Dr. Donald Chittick, Ph.D. in physical chemistry, Oregon State U.,
Associate Professor of Chemistry , U. of Puget Sound
Dr. Giuseppe Sermonti, Ph.D., geneticist and microbiologist, has served as
Professor of Genetics at U. of Palermo & U. of Perugia
Dr. Andre Eggen, Institute Nationale de la Agrinomique of France, working
on genetic defect in cows known as the Bulldog gene defect.
Dave Phillips, M.S., physical anthropology, California State U., working on
Ph.D. in paleontology
Jonathan D. Sarfati, Ph.D., F.M. -- Ph.D. in Chemistry from Victoria
univeristy of Wellington, New Zealand. New Zealand chess champion.

Dr. Jack Cuozzo, orthodontist (DDS, University of Pennsylvania and MS in
Oral Biology, Loyola University of Chicago) and an original researcher of
Neanderthals, is the author of Buried Alive. This book sets forth the
thesis that human craniofacial structures continue to change with aging and
that Neanderthals were humans who lived to be hundreds of years old
(post-flood). If anything, humans are devolving.

Dr. Joseph Mastropaolo, physiologist for the human engine of the Gossamer
Condor and Gossamer Albatross man-powered flight projects (reported in the
National Geographic), received his doctorate from the University of Iowa.
Dr. Mastropaolo does not believe evolution qualifies as science.

Dr. Robert A. Herrmann -- Professor of Mathematics, U. S. Naval Academy
http://mathweb.mathsci.usna.edu/faculty/herrmannra/

http://www.serve.com/herrmann/main.html

[thalassa]

Re: How do you feel when something you believed to be true is debunked by science?

BTW,Francis Shaffer was not a science type,he was more in the vain of a religious zealot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Schaeffer

I'm not Christian, or a Creationist. And I am certainly a scientist.

Hence, his statement is factually incorrect.


But this kind of zealotry is incapable of reason.