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  • Fear and deity

    Hello! This is my first non-introduction post. I'm really just looking for some advice.

    In my introduction I mentioned that I haven't considered myself a Christian since I was 11, but even though it's been a while I still carry around a lot of the negative things I was taught about religion and God by my family and culture. I was raised with the idea that fear is the best way to love God and I find that I still associate "deity" with "fear". Even to this day my step-grandmother will send me books that are supposedly about religion but are really more about Lucifer and his temptations, out to destroy my soul. From a woman who, at least as far as I know, still believes I'm a Christian.

    I believe I've been very lucky throughout the years, inasmuch as I think the Goddesses I've been called to have called quite loudly. That always made me feel so happy but also, very, very afraid. At some point I'd read myths about them or really any gods at all and they invariably show mortals being punished for...not worshipping right, is the one that bothers me the most. Those stories and the threats (that's what they feel like to me) that I remember about God not loving me if I do ____ and Satan trying to possess me make me so afraid that I don't feel like I can actually worship any deity without putting myself in actual danger. It doesn't make a lot of sense, to be called by someone just so they can punish you. That's what I keep telling myself, anyways.

    So basically I'm so terrified that I'm going to say something wrong in prayer that I spend half of my time apologizing for being such a dunce. Then when it gets to be so much that I end up not praying or offering anything of myself at all, I worry that I'm going to be punished for that! I feel like I'm being disrespectful, which only makes everything worse because that's not how I want to be.

    So I guess my question is, did/do you experience any fear when it comes to connecting with your chosen deity, assuming you have one, or when connecting with your religion in general? If so, how do you handle it? Whether you do or not, do you have any ideas for how I can address the fear I feel?

    Thank you for your time and effort!

  • #2
    Re: Fear and deity

    Originally posted by Strength View Post

    So I guess my question is, did/do you experience any fear when it comes to connecting with your chosen deity, assuming you have one, or when connecting with your religion in general? If so, how do you handle it? Whether you do or not, do you have any ideas for how I can address the fear I feel?

    Thank you for your time and effort!
    Yes, I did. When I practiced Hinduism. Why did I have fear of doing something wrong? Because other people proclaimed how things should be done, and that not doing it perfectly would render the whole thing for naught (I left Hinduism for several reasons, the main one being it just wasn't my cup of tea). Do I feel that fear now, as an Asatruar, a "Thorsman"? Hellz no way. I think it all comes down to what people put into your head. I will quote from the Bhagavad Gita (9.26), however, where Krishna says "If one offers Me with love and devotion, a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it". This is to say that it is the loving intent of the devotee that counts, not fumbling and stumbling on words or making elaborate offerings. I hope that helps.
    śivāya vishnu rūpaya śivaḥ rūpaya vishnave
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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    • #3
      Re: Fear and deity

      Thank you for your reply, Gunnar Thorbjorn. First of all, congratulations on finding the right religion for you and for leaving your fear behind. The quote is lovely and to me is kind of the epitome of a gracious God, one who doesn't really need anything but a sincere gesture. Maybe I'm underestimating the kindness of the Goddesses I feel in relationship with. I'm also aware that a lot of what I feel has nothing to do with them and everything to do with me and my history, or at least I am when I'm being rational.

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      • #4
        Re: Fear and deity

        I've experienced some fear three times during my years and years of religious exploration. The first two were while I was a (struggling) christian. All those years of being told that we should "love and fear the Lord" had left me not with any sort of adoration, but a nagging worry that if I DIDN'T "love" Him, then I would have to fear what was in store for me for not being a good Catholic.

        Now, don't get me wrong. It wasn't as if I was outright told that if I didn't follow the faith that I would be going to Hell, and I wasn't raised in one of those strict religious households. In fact, my upbringing was quite excellent, even though I hated going to church every week and was very much against the catechism classes that I had to go to up until I made my Confirmation. It was just this ... feeling that I couldn't shake.

        The second time was connected to all of this, during a retreat that we had to go to in order to make our Confirmation. While there, during a period of meditation and reflection, I grew afraid because I wasn't experiencing the "touch of God" that I was supposed to be feeling, and even though I was having my doubts about Catholicism at that time, it still scared me. Interestingly enough, that was also the same time that I realized that there had to be something else out there for me, something that fit me better.

        Lastly, the third time was only for a brief moment, when I had a dream/vision/was contacted by Odin. For a split second, when he looked upon me for the first time, I was afraid, but there was something in his look that immediately calmed those fears and banished them entirely.
        "The streams called Ice-waves, those which were so long come from the fountain-heads that the yeasty venom upon them had hardened like the slag that runs out of the fire, - these then became ice; and when the ice halted and ceased to run, then it froze over above. But the drizzling rain that rose from the venom congealed to rime, and the rime increased, frost over frost, each over the other, even into Ginnungagap, the Yawning Void. Ginnungagap, which faced toward the northern quarter, became filled with heaviness, and masses of ice and rime, and from within, drizzling rain and gusts; but the southern part of the Yawning Void was lighted by those sparks and glowing masses which flew out of Múspellheim. Just as cold arose out of Niflheim, and all terrible things, so also all that looked toward Múspellheim became hot and glowing; but Ginnungagap was as mild as windless air, and when the breath of heat met the rime, so that it melted and dripped, life was quickened from the yeast-drops, by the power of that which sent the heat, and became a man's form. And that man is named Ymir, but the Rime-Giants call him Aurgelimir" - The Gylfaginning

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        • #5
          Re: Fear and deity

          To be fair Christianity is all about this. God punishes sinners who don't repent, God punishes those who don't worship him, God sometimes punishes the devout to test their faith (poor Job) because he can, so divinities punishing people isn't exclusive to paganism.

          The gods wield immense powers as keepers of the universe. They are the typhoons and tornadoes, the infernos destroying the forest, the waves crashing on the shore and wiping everything way, but they are also the warmth of sunlight giving life to the land, the hart running through the undergrowth, the moon and stars guiding our way in the darkness. They are not all cruelty and like normal people there are positive and negative traits to each of them. The gods are the nature and the universe, destruction and creation, and have within them an infinite capacity for horror, and an unending capability for love.

          It's understandable to have some amount of fear when speaking of any being we recognize as a god, if only because they can do things and know things we cannot imagine, but many deities are loyal to their followers. They share a mutual love and adoration. The relationship between divinity and practitioner is a personal one, but not always a formal one. Some gods are fine with being treated like friends. It's really specific to the deity and the person.
          “They moaned and squealed, and pressed their snouts to the earth. We are sorry, we are sorry.
          Sorry you were caught, I said. Sorry that you thought I was weak, but you were wrong.”
          -Madeline Miller, Circe

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          • #6
            Re: Fear and deity

            Yes. I've felt fear.

            As a Christian, and especially during my time as a Pentecostal, fear was ingrained. I've mentioned this in another thread about conspiracies in regards to Christianity, but I attribute my need to discount Christianity in general to the fear they instilled. If I discount them, there's no reason to fear. I think this is often the case for many former Christians.

            As a pagan, I've come to the point where I more or less worship archetypes. I've been exploring and I have no problem naming those archetypes and exploring the various stories about the deities that they represent (who represent them?) One of the archetypes I've been most attached to is the Trickster and that is at times a little frightening. The trickster is tricky, you never know exactly what's going to happen. Exactly when you get a feel for him, he changes.

            I've also at one point worshipped Death. Not really long enough to get much of a feel for it, but I felt the calling for a short time and that was frightening in its own way too, simply because of the subject matter. In fact, it was the inability to overcome that fear that stopped me from exploring more deeply.

            But, the fear I've felt as a pagan, worshipping, is nothing compared to what I felt as a Christian. As a Christian, no matter what I did I was somehow soiled, simply for being born the way God made me, and nothing I did was going to make the better. I could be saved, I could work my way into heaven, but nothing would erase the nature that God and Adam and Eve had passed down to me, and so I was inherently working against who I am, to make happy a god who would never be satisfied. As a pagan, I'm excepted for being who I am. Being whole and happy, that's enough. Doing more, that makes the gods happy. What fear I have, comes from within myself. I guess, I fear disappointing them, rather than fearing them punishing me. It's a subtle difference, but that's where I stand.
            We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

            I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
            It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
            Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
            -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

            Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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            • #7
              Re: Fear and deity

              Awesome = filled with a sense of supernatural dread.

              I have felt this when looking over the edge of the Grand Canyon, the first time I had sex, when my children were born.

              A person who has not felt this, at one time or another, is dead inside.

              I'd like to say that such a person is not worth wasting time on, but it would be better to bring them to life - even if it takes a heavy dose of LSD to do it...

              As far as being afraid of worshiping incorrectly, well, pthuuth! These days, the Gods are lucky that anybody at all wastes time on them.
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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              • #8
                Re: Fear and deity

                I didn't experience fear when I met Anubis. I experienced respect. Deities are always to be respected, in my opinion at least. Anubis is my personal god and he is more like a father to me, but that doesn't me I don't respect him.
                Anubisa

                Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

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                • #9
                  Re: Fear and deity

                  Originally posted by Corvus View Post
                  To be fair Christianity is all about this. God punishes sinners who don't repent, God punishes those who don't worship him, God sometimes punishes the devout to test their faith (poor Job) because he can, so divinities punishing people isn't exclusive to paganism.

                  The gods wield immense powers as keepers of the universe. They are the typhoons and tornadoes, the infernos destroying the forest, the waves crashing on the shore and wiping everything way, but they are also the warmth of sunlight giving life to the land, the hart running through the undergrowth, the moon and stars guiding our way in the darkness. They are not all cruelty and like normal people there are positive and negative traits to each of them. The gods are the nature and the universe, destruction and creation, and have within them an infinite capacity for horror, and an unending capability for love.

                  It's understandable to have some amount of fear when speaking of any being we recognize as a god, if only because they can do things and know things we cannot imagine, but many deities are loyal to their followers. They share a mutual love and adoration. The relationship between divinity and practitioner is a personal one, but not always a formal one. Some gods are fine with being treated like friends. It's really specific to the deity and the person.
                  Basically this. Corvus pretty much summed it all up.

                  Like Corvus said, it's understandable to have an amount of fear when speaking to a god or goddess. Though many deities give their love and and adoration to their followers in return.
                  From personal life, I can say that I used to be afraid of Yhwh. When I used to be Jewish many many years ago. But I quit because a a faith of fear in a god just was not for me.

                  After doing a bit digging, I found the two gods that I can worship without any fear. I always know that they are deities and can do things I can't even imagine. But, my personal way of worshiping a deity, is through loyalty, respect and love to the deity.

                  You don't have to be afraid of deities. You just need to know before whom you stand, and what the deity likes to get as an offering. It can be also vital to know a nice deal of info about the deity itself.

                  If you don't mind me asking, who are the deities you tried to contact with?
                  "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



                  Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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                  • #10
                    Re: Fear and deity

                    I certainly felt uneasiness - I'm not sure if it was "fear" per se, but it was certainly discomfort when I was first contacted by a Demon.

                    Especially coming from an intense family of Pentecostal Christians.

                    I divorced myself from Christianity many years ago and became an atheist. Then, as I began to research Neo-Paganism and world mythology, I felt that I was being led somewhere - though I didn't know where. I went through a long and frustrating "search" for a place that I belonged and for deities that I could believe in, but always came up short. It was only when I stopped searching that my Gods found me - and were completely not what I was expecting nor would have ever searched out myself.

                    I certainly agree that coming from certain Christian backgrounds can truly cause a great amount of frustration and fear for those exploring alternative religious routes or deities. Obviously, there are deities from outside of Christianity which, according to their respective mythologies, can also be vindictive, manipulative or punishing - but I feel that there are far more that are not. And remember, too, that (according to what you believe, anyway), mythologies are stories and the experiences and perceptions of only a few. Not everyone's interactions with a deity will be true to their reputation.

                    My personal feelings are that if something as perceptibly "evil" as a Demon can be capable of great acts of love and compassion towards human beings, then it's safe to say that looks and mythologies can often be deceiving.

                    There are, without question, some deities which must be worked with in a particular fashion or perhaps not approached in a particular way, but that's not the case for all. My feelings are that if your intentions are made clear, you treat the Spirits with respect and you provide a reciprocating interaction with Them, things should be fine. Researching would be highly advisable, but don't let mythologies instill fear into you unnecessarily.
                    Last edited by Torey; 08 Nov 2014, 02:10.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Fear and deity

                      Fear is a really big issue for me!

                      When I started moving away from Christianity as I knew it then, I couldn't help but have that niggle in the back of my mind, 'What if I am one of the deceived?' I just had to squash it every time it came up and be rational. The fear I felt (and still do) was mostly fear of isolation and judgement from others. When I really looked into my spirit, I could not feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, only immobilising fear. That is a kind of fear that is not of the Divine. So, I would reassure myself that "God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, of love, and of a sound mind." I also rationalised that my search was for the Divine and if in my search I came back to Christ, I have come back richer for learning and if I didn't, then the perceived consequences don't matter because they are a lie anyway. When I seek, I find and I anticipate the discoveries.

                      Unlike your fear of the divine, much of my initial fear was because of the way the social structure of the church is set up. Once you are in, it is very hard to leave. It's very traumatic for the person doing the leaving because you have to give up that sense of belonging. You have to build a new identity. In any other secular group, you may continue to be friends with someone once they have left. But with Christianity, there's a sense of betrayal there when someone commits apostasy. You may still be friends, but the friendship misses its depth. A fear of the unknown does factor in, but because I didn't become a Christian to escape Hell, I have never feared it. My fear was always about losing important people in my life.

                      So, similar to Shahaku, my move was to discount the Church's authority over me. I began to separate teaching regarding the nature of the divine from teaching about the nature of the church and consequences for leaving it. When I felt fear, I followed it back to the root cause: 'Fear of not belonging.' That is a valid human need by the way, do you know of Maslow's Heirachy of Needs? In the end I decided that the church cannot force my path a certain way. It is up to me to follow wherever I am called. At the point of death, I don't want to look back and know that I let a bunch of people make choices for me I knew weren't right.

                      My story ends a little differently in that I am totally claimed by Christ and so my searching leads me back to Him. For you, I think Gleb has offered some really great advice:
                      You don't have to be afraid of deities. You just need to know before whom you stand, and what the deity likes to get as an offering. It can be also vital to know a nice deal of info about the deity itself.
                      Knowing what you are getting into before you start can help to dull the fear of the unknown.

                      If you are responsive to music, the song 'Oceans' helps me to be unafraid of the new directions my faith journey takes me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POK2yIO914c Just ignore the talky parts You can substitute in there whatever your words are for the divine. It's the essence of the song I enjoy: Being totally secure in the hands of a deity who is calling you to them, even if you are unsure of what you are doing.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Fear and deity

                        I'm going to be an odd person out and say no, I've never felt actual fear of the gods (what what they could do to me as a person, or in terms of punishment)--either as a Christian or as a Pagan. I wasn't raised in that sort of Christianity, where "god-fearing" was an admirable trait, or that God was vengeful (we weren't OT sorts of Christians). The idea of fearing what God/the gods would do if I were doing the wrong thing is something that is so far from my experiences and my beliefs that I have trouble imagining it. Heck, I have trouble figuring out why someone (Christian or otherwise) would worship something they fear is out to get them for a simple mistake; I'm a bit to rebellious for that, and perhaps most importantly, I don't take mythology (whether it be Christian scripture or the stories of various Paganisms, or something else) literally.

                        With that being said (like Corbin), I've felt awe. I sort of like the term "wonder-struck" to describe it... But my gods are the elements and forces of nature and life themselves...the names and faces humanity has given them are just that--personalities we have given them that mesh with our individual and collective psychologies and cultures.
                        “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

                        “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
                        ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

                        "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
                        ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

                        "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

                        Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                        • #13
                          Re: Fear and deity

                          Never felt fear with deities but as a young 12-13 year old did feel a bit of anger at a priest when he tried to touch me. Me being the kinda rough street kid "Might" have said to him "Do that again and you will pull back a stub" That being how us street children tended to express ourselves.
                          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                          sigpic

                          my new page here,let me know what you think.


                          nothing but the shadow of what was

                          witchvox
                          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                          • #14
                            Re: Fear and deity

                            Thank you guys for all of your advice and for sharing! This is really helping me think through my feelings.

                            Originally posted by Gleb View Post
                            You don't have to be afraid of deities. You just need to know before whom you stand, and what the deity likes to get as an offering. It can be also vital to know a nice deal of info about the deity itself.

                            If you don't mind me asking, who are the deities you tried to contact with?
                            I don't mind you asking me that at all. I feel the most fear with two specific deities. The first is the Moon, who in my mind either goes by Selene or doesn't have a name. She was the first deity I felt connected to when I left Christianity and I still feel very connected to her. I don't know exactly why I fear her. The second is a Goddess who I haven't been able to name yet, but her energy and symbology is extremely similar to Hera. She may in fact be Hera, but the name Hera doesn't sound exactly right to me when I think of her. Either way, she has a very regal energy. I feel like a peasant before a queen, except this particular queen knows all of my thoughts, all of my actions, everything about me whether it's good or bad and I have nothing to do but hope that she accepts me. I guess she probably has, because it's been years since I became aware of her. I think my fear really is just from my upbringing. Maybe fear isn't even the right word for it, although it's certainly tied into it. I think a better word would be shame. For me it was always, do anything (existing is included in that), feel shame, be terrified of getting punished.

                            As far as offerings, I feel that she doesn't want "things" offered as much as energy and effort. Like, in the past I've made bread to show my gratefulness, but somehow I felt that the bread didn't matter as much as the act of making the bread. Once I was done making it, the offering was pretty much over.

                            Azvanna: I hadn't heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs before, but I looked it up and it certainly makes a lot of sense. I would be the last person to deny how necessary a sense of belonging is to people. It's a huge part of why I don't really tell the people in my day to day life about my religion. Thank you for the link-I adore music!

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                            • #15
                              Re: Fear and deity

                              I'll tell you what, deities often dislike it when their followers feel shame or an unpleasant feeling of not satisfying them. They often encourage their followers to try new things and discover their own way of worshiping them.
                              If you want to create a stronger connection with the Moon or the deity that is similar to Hera, do it with a positive feeling of success/love whatever you find useful. If you smile to the deity, the deity will smile to you back! Remember that!
                              "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



                              Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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