Re: Charlie Hebdo
Thal, had I found this thread when I was looking I never would have started that other one, so....
Yex, you might want to find a different word because Muslim is not a race, so insulting Islam is not racist any more than insulting Christianity or Buddhism is racist. Know a couple of white converts, one converted from fundy-Christian and the other from Catholicism. Also, having spent some time in Muslim countries, may I say that they have their share of a-hats also, but they love a double standard as much as anyone else so there is all this rhetoric about how they are so respectful and polite, blah, blah, blah. Some are and some aren't, just like everywhere else in the world.
Here is where I think things get lost between cultures -- there is no such thing as a satirical cartoon in countries under Islamic law. Making an image of anything at all is forbidden and considered a grave sin. It is a form of expression that is completely lost in translation.
I have never read Hebdo, I have not checked out their material since the shootings because it doesn't sound like my flavor, I am not advocating for any opinion expressed by that publication, yet I vehemently support the right to self-expression through any medium. There will always be people in free-speech cultures who will not respect anything as a matter of course. In my own country there are people saying things I would die in a ditch fighting against, and yet I stand firmly for their right to say them. I don't see this as a religious matter at all, but a matter of what liberty entails. Perhaps those are my own cultural blinders.
I cannot know, but suspect that many radicals currently cutting a swath of carnage across the Middle East attempting to establish a true caliphate believe that if only everyone were held firmly (ie, agree or you die) to a particular interpretation of religious law then a peaceful, ideal society will necessarily follow. The end that justifies the horrible means is, of course, God's kingdom on earth. This is faulty logic prima facie, but since when has religious belief been logical? Has anything other than violence been tried by this bunch? I guess that is most baffling for me, I simply don't see them trying anything else, and to my mind you can't beat somebody into respecting you.
Finally, I read an interview with Turkey's Prime Minister this past week and he did want the term "Islamic terrorist" to be used. He maintained that terrorism is not Islamic. I don't think this dog hunts. While it is true that not all terrorism is Islamic, when the perpetrators of a terrorist act state that they are committing the act for Islam, the term Islamic terrorist is an apt descriptor even if the great bulk of the Islamic community do not approve of their actions. In the same sense, the folks from Westboro Baptist are routinely described as Christian protestors even though the great bulk of Christians don't like what they do. The reason is that they assert their religious beliefs as the basis for their actions.
I do go on. I will stop now.
- - - Updated - - -
too late to edit, but should say the Turkish PM did NOT want ....
Thal, had I found this thread when I was looking I never would have started that other one, so....
Yex, you might want to find a different word because Muslim is not a race, so insulting Islam is not racist any more than insulting Christianity or Buddhism is racist. Know a couple of white converts, one converted from fundy-Christian and the other from Catholicism. Also, having spent some time in Muslim countries, may I say that they have their share of a-hats also, but they love a double standard as much as anyone else so there is all this rhetoric about how they are so respectful and polite, blah, blah, blah. Some are and some aren't, just like everywhere else in the world.
Here is where I think things get lost between cultures -- there is no such thing as a satirical cartoon in countries under Islamic law. Making an image of anything at all is forbidden and considered a grave sin. It is a form of expression that is completely lost in translation.
I have never read Hebdo, I have not checked out their material since the shootings because it doesn't sound like my flavor, I am not advocating for any opinion expressed by that publication, yet I vehemently support the right to self-expression through any medium. There will always be people in free-speech cultures who will not respect anything as a matter of course. In my own country there are people saying things I would die in a ditch fighting against, and yet I stand firmly for their right to say them. I don't see this as a religious matter at all, but a matter of what liberty entails. Perhaps those are my own cultural blinders.
I cannot know, but suspect that many radicals currently cutting a swath of carnage across the Middle East attempting to establish a true caliphate believe that if only everyone were held firmly (ie, agree or you die) to a particular interpretation of religious law then a peaceful, ideal society will necessarily follow. The end that justifies the horrible means is, of course, God's kingdom on earth. This is faulty logic prima facie, but since when has religious belief been logical? Has anything other than violence been tried by this bunch? I guess that is most baffling for me, I simply don't see them trying anything else, and to my mind you can't beat somebody into respecting you.
Finally, I read an interview with Turkey's Prime Minister this past week and he did want the term "Islamic terrorist" to be used. He maintained that terrorism is not Islamic. I don't think this dog hunts. While it is true that not all terrorism is Islamic, when the perpetrators of a terrorist act state that they are committing the act for Islam, the term Islamic terrorist is an apt descriptor even if the great bulk of the Islamic community do not approve of their actions. In the same sense, the folks from Westboro Baptist are routinely described as Christian protestors even though the great bulk of Christians don't like what they do. The reason is that they assert their religious beliefs as the basis for their actions.
I do go on. I will stop now.
- - - Updated - - -
too late to edit, but should say the Turkish PM did NOT want ....
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