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    #16
    Re: Charlie Hebdo

    Thal, had I found this thread when I was looking I never would have started that other one, so....

    Yex, you might want to find a different word because Muslim is not a race, so insulting Islam is not racist any more than insulting Christianity or Buddhism is racist. Know a couple of white converts, one converted from fundy-Christian and the other from Catholicism. Also, having spent some time in Muslim countries, may I say that they have their share of a-hats also, but they love a double standard as much as anyone else so there is all this rhetoric about how they are so respectful and polite, blah, blah, blah. Some are and some aren't, just like everywhere else in the world.

    Here is where I think things get lost between cultures -- there is no such thing as a satirical cartoon in countries under Islamic law. Making an image of anything at all is forbidden and considered a grave sin. It is a form of expression that is completely lost in translation.

    I have never read Hebdo, I have not checked out their material since the shootings because it doesn't sound like my flavor, I am not advocating for any opinion expressed by that publication, yet I vehemently support the right to self-expression through any medium. There will always be people in free-speech cultures who will not respect anything as a matter of course. In my own country there are people saying things I would die in a ditch fighting against, and yet I stand firmly for their right to say them. I don't see this as a religious matter at all, but a matter of what liberty entails. Perhaps those are my own cultural blinders.

    I cannot know, but suspect that many radicals currently cutting a swath of carnage across the Middle East attempting to establish a true caliphate believe that if only everyone were held firmly (ie, agree or you die) to a particular interpretation of religious law then a peaceful, ideal society will necessarily follow. The end that justifies the horrible means is, of course, God's kingdom on earth. This is faulty logic prima facie, but since when has religious belief been logical? Has anything other than violence been tried by this bunch? I guess that is most baffling for me, I simply don't see them trying anything else, and to my mind you can't beat somebody into respecting you.

    Finally, I read an interview with Turkey's Prime Minister this past week and he did want the term "Islamic terrorist" to be used. He maintained that terrorism is not Islamic. I don't think this dog hunts. While it is true that not all terrorism is Islamic, when the perpetrators of a terrorist act state that they are committing the act for Islam, the term Islamic terrorist is an apt descriptor even if the great bulk of the Islamic community do not approve of their actions. In the same sense, the folks from Westboro Baptist are routinely described as Christian protestors even though the great bulk of Christians don't like what they do. The reason is that they assert their religious beliefs as the basis for their actions.

    I do go on. I will stop now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    too late to edit, but should say the Turkish PM did NOT want ....

    "No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." -- Niels Bohr

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      #17
      Re: Charlie Hebdo

      Originally posted by iris View Post
      Her mother is not a public person. Any religious icon becomes the potential target of ridicule. That does not incite or in ANY way justify violence. It justifies a shrug, an angry letter, or a laugh. I like that you mention pornography as evil in this same post, that's funny.
      I mentioned Porn in the same post to indicate how a Freedom of Speech Law can be perverted for Ones ill-centered gain --- in the case of Porn , financial gain, and same for the French Newspaper trying to sell more issues using inconsiderate means .

      I don't share your permissiveness of ridicule as a virtue or 'a laugh' . Civil people don't push the envelope toward as much defamation as they can get away with ; maybe it will take a couple more Terrorist hits before the French Newspaper wakes up and trade in their puerile stubbornness for 'a laugh' and adopt some manner of integrity.

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        #18
        Re: Charlie Hebdo

        You don't find manners through death.
        You find death.

        Get it together.
        Satan is my spirit animal

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          #19
          Re: Charlie Hebdo

          Originally posted by Seeking a Religion View Post
          ...Civil people don't push the envelope toward as much defamation as they can get away with ; maybe it will take a couple more Terrorist hits before the French Newspaper wakes up and trade in their puerile stubbornness for 'a laugh' and adopt some manner of integrity.
          So, in other words, you support the action of the terrorists because it will force people to be more respectful to each other?
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #20
            Re: Charlie Hebdo

            Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
            So, in other words, you support the action of the terrorists because it will force people to be more respectful to each other?
            Apparently so.

            Also pron is bad. Even when its consenting adults.


            ...I ought to tell the hubby. And stop reading romance novels myself.
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
            sigpic

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              #21
              Re: Charlie Hebdo

              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
              Apparently so.

              Also pron is bad. Even when its consenting adults.


              ...I ought to tell the hubby. And stop reading romance novels myself.
              Damn it! Don't nobody be touchin' my smut!
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Charlie Hebdo

                I'm extremely anti-porn/smut/whatever you want to call it. What that means is *I* choose not to see it, and I don't want to be forced to. Whatever any other adults want to do is their choice. Guess that's the same as I feel about most things. I believe in individual freedom.
                sigpic
                Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Charlie Hebdo

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                  So, in other words, you support the action of the terrorists because it will force people to be more respectful to each other?
                  Ive already made it clear in a previous post that I don't support the Terrorists actions and in fact called them Murderers. What I am saying is : By the French Newspaper continuing to defame Islams greatest Prophet , they not only deeply offend the more fundamental peaceful Followers of Islam but they are inciting the Islam Terrorists to greater retaliation at the expense of French citizens lives . The pig-headedness of the French Newspaper is going to come back to bite them again if they continue...and what for ---- ongoing arrogance, insensitivity, and an 'up yours' mendacious attitude ? Will it be worth more innocent French citizens having their lives taken from them prematurely and unnecessarily ? The French Government should step in and say 'Okay, that's enough ; we got our point across and had our laughs at great cost' .

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
                  I'm extremely anti-porn/smut/whatever you want to call it. What that means is *I* choose not to see it, and I don't want to be forced to. Whatever any other adults want to do is their choice. Guess that's the same as I feel about most things. I believe in individual freedom.
                  Well, I used to have the same philosophy as yours but I started caring more about the big picture instead of my own little world . Tolerance to immorality is just an attitude of not caring really ; its been THE catalyst to Americas huge moral degradation with enormous cost of human life even . America was once a nation that believed in 'Im my brothers keeper' philosophy and lovingly approached another that was heading down the wrong path leading to personal destruction , but todays Post Modernism has traded that in for pretending there are no absolute moral laws worthy of following which has been a springboard for much filth, exploitation, and vile behavior ---- all of which most now turn a blind eye to .

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                    #24
                    Re: Charlie Hebdo

                    Originally posted by Seeking a Religion View Post



                    America was once a nation that believed in 'Im my brothers keeper' philosophy and lovingly approached another that was heading down the wrong path leading to personal destruction , but todays Post Modernism has traded that in for pretending there are no absolute moral laws worthy of following which has been a springboard for much filth, exploitation, and vile behavior ---- all of which most now turn a blind eye to .
                    What time frame would you be referring to? I'm calling you out and I would like a specific set of years or decades you think this was actually the case. I want a number.
                    Satan is my spirit animal

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Charlie Hebdo

                      Originally posted by Seeking a Religion View Post



                      Well, I used to have the same philosophy as yours but I started caring more about the big picture instead of my own little world . Tolerance to immorality is just an attitude of not caring really ; its been THE catalyst to Americas huge moral degradation with enormous cost of human life even . America was once a nation that believed in 'Im my brothers keeper' philosophy and lovingly approached another that was heading down the wrong path leading to personal destruction , but todays Post Modernism has traded that in for pretending there are no absolute moral laws worthy of following which has been a springboard for much filth, exploitation, and vile behavior ---- all of which most now turn a blind eye to .
                      As I've gotten older, I place more value on "my own little world" than I did in times of less maturity, as I now realize it's all I've got. As within, so without.
                      sigpic
                      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                        #26
                        Re: Charlie Hebdo

                        Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                        What time frame would you be referring to? I'm calling you out and I would like a specific set of years or decades you think this was actually the case. I want a number.
                        I'm curious to know when this mythical wonder-time was myself. Perhaps it what while folks were taking land away from indigenous peoples. Or maybe during that little slavery escapade. Or perhaps while busy making sure women and brown people couldn't vote. Or maybe it was when folks were living in squalid tenements because there weren't any worker protections. Or maybe...



                        When supposedly seeking a religion based upon historical and scientific accuracy, maybe it would be good to start with a better grounding in science and history. Instead of trying to rewrite history and science to fit one's pre-existing world view (which seems to smell very Evangelically Fundamentalist)...
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                        sigpic

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                          #27
                          Re: Charlie Hebdo

                          It was 1955-62.

                          If you were a middle class white guy, you had it made.

                          Otherwise, well, not so much.
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Charlie Hebdo

                            Straight too

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Charlie Hebdo

                              Well,it seems somehow I missed that period,and I think I would have noticed the absolute period of Nirvana. It is possible I was to much into contemplating my naval at the time,but it might also have been the acid...enough said...
                              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                              NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                              don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                              sigpic

                              my new page here,let me know what you think.


                              nothing but the shadow of what was

                              witchvox
                              http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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                                #30
                                Re: Charlie Hebdo

                                [QUOTE=Seeking a Religion;170659]Ive already made it clear in a previous post that I don't support the Terrorists actions and in fact called them Murderers. What I am saying is : By the French Newspaper continuing to defame Islams greatest Prophet , they not only deeply offend the more fundamental peaceful Followers of Islam but they are inciting the Islam Terrorists to greater retaliation at the expense of French citizens lives . The pig-headedness of the French Newspaper is going to come back to bite them again if they continue...and what for ---- ongoing arrogance, insensitivity, and an 'up yours' mendacious attitude ? Will it be worth more innocent French citizens having their lives taken from them prematurely and unnecessarily ? The French Government should step in and say 'Okay, that's enough ; we got our point across and had our laughs at great cost'

                                I disagree. I'm glad Charlie Hebdo continued to publish satire even after some goat humping mush brained maniacs tried to bloodily silence them. If following the attack Charlie hebdo had apologised for the cartoons that'd have told terrorists everywhere that their brutal methods do work. Terror can win and can silence free speech. This would've encouraged terrorists to think "if terror could silence hebdo, terror must work let's bomb some more!" However as hebdo courageously defied terrorists through their continued publication of the magazine they showed terror doesn't work. Shooting, beheading or bombing people will not compel them to do what you want. And so I'm proud of hebdo for not giving in to terror and basically giving nutjobs the world over the finger.

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