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Thread: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

  1. #51
    Supporter Raphaeline's Avatar
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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    There's no doubt animal agriculture has a huge and terrible impact on the environment; but that's an argument against factory farming, not against eating meat in general. I'm totally in agreement that the way food animals are treated is heartbreaking and so, so wrong - both on behalf of miserable animals and the environment we all depend on. However, I think that means humans need to eat a lot less meat and consume meat with more respect for the food web that supports us.

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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Watchful Wanderer View Post
    You clearly do not know the environmental impact that lifestyle can have.

    The whole reason the Amazon is being destroyed is so the animal ag industry can use the land for their abattoirs. Speaking of which, what do you think happens to the waste produced by enslaved beings living in those conditions? Why its filtered into the oceans, rivers etc. of course.

    Then there's also the CO2 and Methane produced by the practices as well. As for fishing, its getting to the point that many scientists believe we will have fish-less oceans by 2050.
    This, is actually somewhat on topic. Unchecked industry, including unchecked food industry has nasty side effects. Unfortunately,

    Why is all this happening, because seven billion plus humans want to consume flesh, another species' breast milk, another species' periods etc.
    Human consumption of meat predates modern or even early industry by a couple millennia. As such you've gone from condemning industry which is on topic to condemning dietary choices older than said industry

    I will not be silent just because you're uncomfortable or think that such things are unrelated.
    I entirely agree. You aren't being silent for making Rae'ya uncomfortable (I'm pretty sure that you haven't managed that yet) or because Rae'ya thinks that dietary issues are disconnected from pollution (she might, she might not, don't know, don't care).

    You are being silenced because I'm not willing to see this thread turn into yet another rousing rendition of "omnivore vs vegan, winner takes nothing" and because I don't think you have the self restraint to avoid trying to make it exactly that.
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  3. #53
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    The issue is really proper management,and control for ANY process, that if not regulated becomes a polluter of the environment. As Thal mentions a lot,it is the DOSE and not the drug that kills you.
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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    What is the environmental impact of clearing enormous swaths of land and pumping ginormous amounts of water out of the aquifer for farming?

    Check on California for details...
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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    Watchful Wanderer has been evicted from this thread, so back on topic peeps...

    Having said that, the environmental impact of large scale industry is very relevant to the topic, whether that industry is livestock, fishing, corn crops, carrot crops or manufacturing. No large scale commercial industry has managed to control their environmental impact effectively.

  6. #56
    Copper Member Briton's Avatar
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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    Is it possible for Western nations to have industry, heavy industry (steel production; mobile phone and car factories) whilst meeting their pollution targets?

    It seems a false economy that we have given up a large proportion of our production due to the pollution it creates, only for the gap to be filled with sterile joyless offices which manage the production of these items in countries that don't give a damn. All we've done is allow our jobs to be moved elsewhere for the purpose of shareholder dividends.

    It just seems to me that "pollution" has become a very convenient excuse of increasing profit margins by building products in countries where standards are lower, resulting in the tedium for millions of people in the "western world" (I use quotes because of course these countries do not exist solely in one hemisphere) who want productive work in industry but cannot get it because it is being effectively outlawed, which all happens at the expense of people in countries like the US and the UK.

    If we could create heavy industry that didn't create loads of pollution, such as steelworks powered by modern nuclear power stations, would companies like Apple who run Bangladeshi death traps have a leg to stand on? No, but of course, they're the ones with the money, and since their shareholders are more important than the livelihoods of the people buying their products, this isn't going to change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    What is the environmental impact of clearing enormous swaths of land and pumping ginormous amounts of water out of the aquifer for farming?

    Check on California for details...
    I wonder if WW is aware of the amount of water required for avocado farms?
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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    Profits or no, we don't have the luxury of dragging our feet on this. Climate change is happening NOW, and it's happening whether production happens in China or Europe. That's why international agreements are so important, even if they can be difficult to implement.

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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    Thing is the whole Earth day ideas began way back in the early 70's,save our planet also,but it was ignored for a very long time. Then it started to become apparent that we were hurting the environment in a much more public way. Also the idea came around that our resources are finite,and will NOT last forever. So,conservation was considered.

    War wastes a LOT of resources and people(Not just vast amounts of money) Now everyone is suddenly in a desperate race to save us...
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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    Quote Originally Posted by Briton View Post
    I wonder if WW is aware of the amount of water required for avocado farms?
    Most people seem to be blissfully unaware of farming.

    Cattle are usually grazed on "marginal" lands - land that is unfit for farming, unless massive water resources are exploited to the point of depletion, or massive amounts of fertilizer are applied - leading to run-off and pollution of the rivers and lakes. This is because dirt farming is more profitable (acre to acre) than cattle farming.

    Even without accounting for pesticides, and the need to create GMOs to survive short or dry seasons, dirt farming can be a serious mess, PARTICULARLY when the land is not especially suited for it .

    Here, where I live, despite all the beautiful trees and ferns, we have 1/4 inch of topsoil on top of 2-6 feet of sand, and the sand sits on limestone (all thanks to the last glaciers...). We have plenty of water, but very infertile land, and a very short season (did I mention that we are having another blizzard today? April 6th?).

    The only thing that naturally grows well here is grass (or, with enough fertilizer that must be used every season since it goes straight through the sand - potatoes) - so the farmers raise dairy or meat cattle that eat the grass and convert it into food. Then, their poop goes back into the ground to produce more grass (or potatoes). Any attempt to grow crops would require so much environmental manipulation that the impact on the environment would be devastating.
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    Re: Environmental Pollution, the thread...

    And that B. De. brings us to Over population,not enough resources to provide for way to many people. Population control did not really work all that well for the Chinese,but there are few other workable attempts to control the population(War has thinned us a bit). People live longer,plus more children are born=high population(more mouths to feed)
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