Just accept me. Please.

[Wenny]

TRIGGERING! Deep emotional feelings. :=o:






A bit of back story: My family was really involved in the church, like really involved. My mom ran weekly bible study and children's church, my dad did sound and lighting for events and services. My brother was co-leader of teen group. I would guesstimate we spent about 10 hours on Wednesdays and Sundays at church. They talk about homeschooling us because of science class! :=L: It was a huge blow to my parents when I refused to be baptized and changed my middle name to a "pagan word". In 2010 my brother passed away in a car crash and in 2014 my father took his life, those event sent my mother deeper into evangelicalism. We have gotten into huge fights because I go to a UU church and she worries that I am teaching my daughter the Pagan way. It so hard to hear her beat herself up because she wasn't "good enough" to save dad or me from Paganism. A couple of days ago we got into it because I refused to (again) get baptized and will not go to Church on Easter.

The guilt is holding me back from growing spiritual. I have the books, a mentor, alter, prayers and I meditated. I feel like I do good...until I talk to my mom then I question everything and think for her it would be easier to just pretend to be something I am not.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

Here, on this forum, you are accepted and your thoughts & feelings will be treated as valid (not everybody will agree with you, but you won't sent to Hell for them). Many here (not me, but many) can tell similar stories.

My own personal feeling is that it is better to maintain good relations with important and loved people in your life than it is to "be right," especially in situations where "being right" is so subjective. If religion causes contention between you and those you love, COMPLETELY drop religion as a subject for discussion, and concentrate on those things that can bring you together, rather than the things that drive you apart.

I know this can be hard, but somebody has to be the adult. If it can't be mom, then it could be daughter.

Best wishes!

[Wenny]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

Here, on this forum, you are accepted and your thoughts & feelings will be treated as valid (not everybody will agree with you, but you won't sent to Hell for them). Many here (not me, but many) can tell similar stories.

My own personal feeling is that it is better to maintain good relations with important and loved people in your life than it is to "be right," especially in situations where "being right" is so subjective. If religion causes contention between you and those you love, COMPLETELY drop religion as a subject for discussion, and concentrate on those things that can bring you together, rather than the things that drive you apart.

I know this can be hard, but somebody has to be the adult. If it can't be mom, then it could be daughter.

Best wishes!

Do I stand up for what I believe in or asked to drop the subject? She'll put me on the spot with religious things. I'll be invited for dinner and it turns out to be a dinner and bible study.

[Gleb]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

My own personal feeling is that it is better to maintain good relations with important and loved people in your life than it is to "be right," especially in situations where "being right" is so subjective. If religion causes contention between you and those you love, COMPLETELY drop religion as a subject for discussion, and concentrate on those things that can bring you together, rather than the things that drive you apart.

I know this can be hard, but somebody has to be the adult. If it can't be mom, then it could be daughter.

I second this.
Many have similar stories when relatives are not happy with one's religion. So the only possible way to keep a good relationship with them, is not talking about religion.

Best of luck!

- - - Updated - - -

Do I stand up for what I believe in or asked to drop the subject? She'll put me on the spot with religious things. I'll be invited for dinner and it turns out to be a dinner and bible study.

You don't have to participate in religious things if you don't want to. You can stand for what you believe in AND not talk about it. Not wanting to talk about religion, is not a weakness, but just a way to avoid an argument and trouble.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

Do I stand up for what I believe in or asked to drop the subject? She'll put me on the spot with religious things. I'll be invited for dinner and it turns out to be a dinner and bible study.

Yeah - I know it isn't as easy in practice as it is to say.

Thalassa just published an article which may help, although you may have to modify things because you are dealing with family.

I generally use what I call the "Nod and Smile" technique. When somebody says something intended to trigger a "discussion" that I don't want to have, I put on a smile, nod, and, if I respond vocally at all, it will be with something like "Uhmmm..." or "very nice" or "I see," or something equally ambiguous that says nothing at all, but allows no opening for continuing. If you can manage to do this consistently, it will often break the cycle because the person trying to put you on the spot isn't getting the payoff they want. If you respond, though, they do get the payoff they want, and that is incentive for them to continue.

In the dinner/Bible study situation, try letting the Bible talk go right over your head, and ignore it the way you'd ignore a stranger's fart. Talk, instead, about the meal, good family times from the past, how much you enjoy mom's company, things like that - you know, the trivials that make up human connections

It still isn't going to be easy, and it takes a lot of will power. To me, though, when the choice comes down to being bullied/severing ties with family/accepting things which are not true, I think the expenditure in will power is well worth it.

[Yorin]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

I can relate, my mom's side of the family is the *exact* same way and it got worse after my mom died and how they started in on me because she refused to follow the church as well (though I didn't know that last part til years after she died). Honestly, sometimes it doesn't get better, but I wouldn't suggest ever hiding yourself away. You need to take care of you before anyone else both physically, mentally, emotionally AND spiritually. From experience, trying to hide who/what you are only ends up causing problems both for yourself and the people you're hiding it from. It tends to drag you down and makes you feel worse than you already did.

From what I had to do, I ended up getting into a very heated discussion with some of that side of the family. My grandmother once I explained it all was cool and understood I wasn't following an "evil" path and has stopped preaching God at me and since then we're okay again. My two aunts.....One isn't happy and I don't talk to her much but she's agreed to drop the subject, the other I've completely disowned and refuse to speak to, or let near my house or my family and told that side of the family to warn her that if she showed at my wedding I had several people who'd already volunteered to throw her out.

I'd suggest sitting her down, away from kids and just straight up telling her how you feel about the subject. Don't let her interrupt and guilt trip you. Make sure she understands that the subject needs to be either an "agree to disagree" kind of thing, or just dropped entirely and the manipulation about dinner "and bible study" needs to stop because it clearly makes you uncomfortable and that she isn't respecting you. Respect is a two way street and it sounds to me like you're the only one walking down it.

Good luck though hun-it's not an easy path to walk when you've got people wanting to beat on you at every turn-but if a lifetime of video games has taught me anything, it's that when you have people trying to beat you down for moving forward, it generally means you're going in the right direction

[thalassa]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

Ain't nobody pushin the guilt button like a momma pushin the guilt button...

Corbin has pretty good advice for this.

Personally, when I'm put on the spot, I state something like "I like/respect/love you too much to argue about/discuss this topic with you." If they continue, I walk away. Sometimes I smile and nod, or go along with it (at a funeral, wedding, etc)--recently hubby went home to see his grandma who is dying, his family is Catholic, and she wanted them to pray the rosary together...so he did because someone's deathbed is a place to make them feel better.

But...some people love that guilt thing. They wield it like a weapon of manipulation.

I don't know your mom. but I know people who make a habit of being upset/outraged/disappointed as a manipulation tool (and half they time they aren't even conscious of it). So, I can't say if this is an actual genuine feeling of hers, or a feeling she has convinced herself of because its convienient. But, if it is the latter, there is no shame in refusing to play her game. And either way, you deserve to have boundaries. And you don't deserve to be guilted.

[kalynraye]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

Hello Wenny, We have two things in common. We are both from Texas and we both have extremely christian family members. My mother is not one of those but the other role model women in my life are, my favorite aunt in particular, and when I became a pagan a long time ago we butted heads alot. It was hard and we fought constantly. I am the Godmother to her three children(we are only 9 years apart) and when I became a pagan she threatened to take that away from me if I did not come back to Christianity. When her threats didn't work she stopped talking to me and we went over a year without speaking to each other. Its been 13 years now and we are close again but we don't discuss religion. She still thinks its a phase I'm going through and prays for me regularly.

Its a hard battle, lots of tears lots of anger lots of guilt. There are things I do when I go home and visit to keep the peace. A rule that we all follow is you don't make Nan(grandmother) upset. She is our matriarch, we all meet up for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and Easter. If were fighting we keep our mouth shut and we play nice. We can go back to fighting after the holiday. We go to church on Christmas and Easter. No I am not a Christian but I can respect my grandmother and go to service with her. My Goddess and God do not get angry with me. It eases her soul to have us there even if we don't all agree or we don't all believe.

You have been given great advice on how to handle this issue with your Momma. Try a few out and see what works best for your situation. I know it sucks, and I'm sorry you have to go through it. I hope she is not using guilt to manipulate you. Thats wrong on so many levels.

[habbalah]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

Wenny, just because your spirituality is not the same as your mom's doesn't make yours wrong, or vise versa. She might not accept what you believe, and I'm sorry for that. I can promise that we won't discriminate against you here, and we'll give you the support we can.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

Do I stand up for what I believe in or asked to drop the subject? She'll put me on the spot with religious things. I'll be invited for dinner and it turns out to be a dinner and bible study.

I only have the one religious person in my family, and she's not very pushy, but I do what Corbin does.

I generally think that if you want to keep her in your life, getting into an argument is just not worth it. She has her beliefs, you have yours. Just because she wont respect yours doesn't mean that you shouldn't respect hers. If she wants to talk about Bible stuff then it's okay to sit there and zone out while she blabs on... in exactly the same way that you politely sit there and zone out while they blab on about any of the uninteresting things that they want to talk about. You don't have to agree with her, but you also don't have to disagree with her. Smile, nod, mmmm hmmm, that's nice... then if she tries to make it some sort of formal bible study thing then it's 'awww sorry mum but I can't stay any longer I have to go and do x important thing that can't possibly wait until tomorrow'.

I think that sometimes people think religion is some sort of special topic that HAS to be debated EVERY time anyone mentions it. For some reason people have a hard time shutting up when religion is on the table, especially when one of the people is Christian. I understand that it's hard to have someone actively denigrate your beliefs, or make passive aggressive comments about your beliefs, but it just really isn't worth it. You'll never change her mind, and trying is just going to create conflict and give her more ammunition for next time.

The hard part I think is the guilt trip stuff. I have manipulative people in my family, but not as bad as many do. And I don't have manipulative parents, so I don't have personal experience with it. It's easy for someone like me to say that it's not your fault and don't let her convince you that it is, but I know that when you have an emotionally manipulative parent, they've been working on you your whole life and it really is just not that simple for you.

[Medusa]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

You just need some perspective. What are you going to teach your daughter? Because she's watching you now. Do the right thing for you, your daughter, your currently family unit. Be strong.

[sirz345]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

This forum may not be perfect, in fact we have our own flaws but we are accepting of all and will respect what you say, even if someone doesn't like it. Welcome!

[iris]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

It's amazing how many of us have issues with our mothers.
Mine isn't classic christian, but she's very pushy. I love her, at one point I tried to cut her out of my life, but I couldn't. I decided to be the grown up of us. Sometimes she just wants to talk, because she wants to share her views, and when that's the case I'm happy to oblige. I'm careful not to air my beliefs, but I can nod and smile (as others have mentioned)... I may not share her views, but I can accept them as hers. Sometimes she's clearly looking for an argument, being agressive about it. When this happens I calmly and politely tell her that I don't want to argue about it. Anything after that simply washes over me. If it gets too bad I leave, not rushing out the door, just say your goodbyes, "I'll call you tomorrow " so she doesn't think you're abandoning her, and leave.

[Noir]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

PF is indeed a swell community to be in. You can be open about your spirituality and beliefs here, whatever they may be.

Just keep your chin up and look forward. If your mum wishes to voice her opinions and beliefs, let her. Your path is your own after all, and if it really matters to you, you'll stand by it no matter the banter.

Yes, guilt is definitely a hindering block; that doesn't mean you have to let it stand in your way of happiness and peace. Walk around it, as many folks do. Remember that you're not at fault of anything, and neither is your mother. She may never come to accept your practices, but such is life. Keep on showing her love, and never forget who you are.

[Wenny]

Re: Just accept me. Please.

Thank you all for the advice. One of the issues I have is that I am not strong in my believes and having to retrain my thinking that I am not a bad person. You know not a sinner.