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    Social Contract & Morality

    Here is a post I made to a discussion board & a sort of rebuttal article to something my professor said, stating that the social contract theory is required for society to function. This was very short, and I write it up in about 2 minutes, but I was told by several folks that it is something that was unique, the Philosophy professor said it was a decent challenge to modern ethics, so I want to see what kind of feedback I might get on here! Any thoughts or challenges are greatly appreciated.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________

    First off, the notion that the government should uphold any moral standards, and to thus, make the case that these standards are for the "greater good",and that we are naturally born, and must adhere to these standards is utterly abysmal. The state has no real power, as power is a notion/mindset, and thus, a fallacy in its own right. There is no power, to which it is not blindly given. To bow to such a systematic structure of rules and boundaries, and restraints placed on human nature, seems contrary to the very human element itself, and quite a barbaric & weak-minded practice, if I've ever seen one. I want to first break down the accepted view of society, before delving into morality. We are told, and taught, and we accept the view that society is a large, breathing unit of individuals.. however, while at the same time, the individual, the one(s) who makes up the whole of society, are pushed as aside & deemed irrelevant, making a case that the individual, even though making up the very fabric of society, is no more or less important as the common house fly. The individuals within society are but a mere statistic, and therefore,boast no real meaning besides being another number, or letter of the alphabet; and are certainly not influential in the grand scheme of things. Society & therefore, the state, works on a system of standards. Everything is standardized. Health, both physical &psychological, Education, Morals.. everything has a number, a statistic, or a system of norms, that encourage everyone to be "good little soldiers", and fall in line with these commonly, and passively accepted policies. Failure, in fact, to do so, is social &political suicide, for to the state, and the mass of society, there is no room for the individual, and any hint of practicing individualism is swiftly & mercilessly met with criticism, and a lambasting outcry of attacks by the vicious dogs of normality. It's a sickening system of military-style tactics. Looking back at the 1700's-1800's, the uniforms worn by soldiers were made to do one thing, and one thing only: inhibit the individual. Collars were designed to be stiffened in a fashion that made it damn-uncomfortable to look around,side-to-side, for the good soldier does not think, the good soldier does. "Eyes forward!" as the field commander would call out. You are not a person, you are a pawn, a unit, a single, expendable member of one all-encompassing collective. Within this raw analogy, lies the very fabric of society, under the state, and the notion of the Social Contract.


    If you were to group together 500 people, and conclude that the average weight of those people was, say, 180 pounds, what is the probability that if you pick any person out of that group, that they will weight exactly 180 pounds? The answer would be pretty slim.. they might come close, or might be somewhat near that target mark, but chances are, the person you pick, will not match the exact statistic. Therefore, thinking critically of this matter, we can safely presume that 180 pounds would be a "normal" weight, correct? That this number is the standard by which all others are judged..? If the answer to that was a yes, then any individual deviating from the golden 180, would then immediately be deemed not normal, different, weird, etc.Statistically speaking, any deviation at all, would fail to meet the criteria of normality. And that's just 500 people, so the margin of error could honestly be quite small with my previous example,however, we again must look as society as the "greater-collective"..so, let's push that number to Ten Thousand, or One Million. The larger the scale, the less important the individual therefore becomes, until that number reaches into the billions of persons. What is the significance then? The statistic is stagnant, and thus, so becomes meaning of the individual, in this example (even though this example is the basis of fact-observed throughout life today, as we know it). The worst part, is that there is a blind acceptance of this system. People no longer look at their self for acceptance, but instead bend minds at the atrocious standards society has placed before them, with the looming thought that the failure to conform to such standards; to be an individual among the collective, is to be unfitting for normality, when in reality, it is reality which is unfitting to the individual.


    It is here which I make my final case. I have stated why I think the State (government), as well as society are both atrocious, and here's why:


    Human nature, as well as nature in general is absolute. It is raw, it is real, and it is truthful. It is however, not unicorns, and skittles at all times.Human nature is, as it is. To call it "dark" or "evil",or "immoral" is at its own core, immoral, simply because these entities & ideas repress what just is. It's a very simple concept, one of absolute truth. Therefore, society & normality not only is not of truthful reality, but is in & of itself, immoral. It is conceived, and generated by the collective,unconscious state of self-unaware people to rationalize & repress human nature, and then slap a word on it called "immoral",and then fabricate a notion of normalcy, to further sink into a dulled perception of false security from what we, as humans, truly are. Which is where the cunning nature of manipulative people feed off of this collective state of stupidity, and then implement their own state of "power", which, like I said previously, is done so through blind acceptance. Therefore, the State, as well as the Social Contract, which aim to, once again, limit human nature,and destroy the idea of the individual, are at their very notion,immoral, and collectively repressive. Neither are needed in order to create order, as human nature will do so without empty policy &regulation. Henceforth, deeming Society, as well as the State, and the theory of the Social Contract, along with any unnamed theories &policies, irrelevant to the human element.
    Last edited by MaskedOne; 25 Feb 2015, 03:45.

    #2
    Re: Social Contract & Morality

    Because of the color, I can't read it. Sorry!
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Social Contract & Morality

      Color removed for the sake of legibility. As for the rest, a bit too much opinion and too little argument for me to feel comfortable turning it in for a grade but your mileage may vary.
      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


      Comment


        #4
        Re: Social Contract & Morality

        Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
        Because of the color, I can't read it. Sorry!
        It should be all fixed up now! It was a copy/paste deal haha.

        - - - Updated - - -

        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
        Color removed for the sake of legibility. As for the rest, a bit too much opinion and too little argument for me to feel comfortable turning it in for a grade but your mileage may vary.
        Ahh, my main argument was in response to the Social Contract Theory as a whole, and thus, society itself. There wasn't much in the way of a back-and-forth leading up to this, but was a prompt.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Social Contract & Morality

          I think what he meant is that you lack sources or concrete examples. That's fine on a forum, but probably won't fly in any academic environment.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Social Contract & Morality

            Basic premise,we are all cogs in a giant machine...small issue can a cog exist on its own?

            I have no answers,but like many cogs,I have a lot of questions that may not have any answers.
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Social Contract & Morality

              Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
              I think what he meant is that you lack sources or concrete examples. That's fine on a forum, but probably won't fly in any academic environment.
              ^ This

              The page states multiple "facts" without convincing people that they are indeed factual. I speak from experience when I say that the end result of persuasive papers long on opinion and short on evidence in an academic environment is that your teacher either

              1) shreds your paper, marks it as a failure and you have to try and compensate for that in future papers

              or

              2) shreds your paper and tells you to rewrite it
              life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


              Comment


                #8
                Re: Social Contract & Morality

                Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                I think what he meant is that you lack sources or concrete examples. That's fine on a forum, but probably won't fly in any academic environment.
                That's the thing with Philosophy, as this being my own, I have few sources that can be compared scientifically with anyone else's work. However, I did derive views from some of the following.. It's as close as I can come to sources in their own right:

                Carl Jung, "The Undiscovered Self"

                Hobbes: "State of Nature"

                - - - Updated - - -

                Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                Basic premise,we are all cogs in a giant machine...small issue can a cog exist on its own?

                I have no answers,but like many cogs,I have a lot of questions that may not have any answers.
                This is what prompted my thoughts exactly! The materialistic collective is the "governing" power in today's world. I basically made a challenge to that very idea. (This all has stemmed from my very own questions lol)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Social Contract & Morality

                  Originally posted by Wardruna View Post
                  That's the thing with Philosophy, as this being my own, I have few sources that can be compared scientifically with anyone else's work. However, I did derive views from some of the following.. It's as close as I can come to sources in their own right:
                  In a forum, that works. If you try and use it to rebut a professor....

                  Let's go through some of this. Understand that

                  1) I'm not a professor and
                  2) My major is comp sci, not philosophy

                  So I expect that a professor responding will hit harder and in more places than I will.

                  Originally posted by Wardruna View Post
                  First off, the notion that the government should uphold any moral standards, and to thus, make the case that these standards are for the "greater good",and that we are naturally born, and must adhere to these standards is utterly abysmal. The state has no real power, as power is a notion/mindset, and thus, a fallacy in its own right.
                  See that bolded text. You've just redefined the word power. Neither your professor or I are required to acknowledge your new definition unless you persuade us we should. Let's visit Merriam-Webster

                  Definitions:
                  Any of the above three are more common definitions and you are welcome to try and make the case that the state can make no claim on any of them but you better be able to support it because the counter arguments are very graphic.


                  There is no power, to which it is not blindly given. To bow to such a systematic structure of rules and boundaries, and restraints placed on human nature, seems contrary to the very human element itself, and quite a barbaric & weak-minded practice, if I've ever seen one. I want to first break down the accepted view of society, before delving into morality. We are told, and taught, and we accept the view that society is a large, breathing unit of individuals..
                  See the bold? Who is telling us this? If your answer comes in the form of a pronoun then get a better answer. Specifics are expected and citations would be even better. If you intend to break down the accepted view of society then you need to be sure you are presenting the accepted view and you need to convince your reader of the same.

                  however, while at the same time, the individual, the one(s) who makes up the whole of society, are pushed as aside & deemed irrelevant, making a case that the individual, even though making up the very fabric of society, is no more or less important as the common house fly. The individuals within society are but a mere statistic, and therefore,boast no real meaning besides being another number, or letter of the alphabet; and are certainly not influential in the grand scheme of things.
                  Citation Needed

                  Society & therefore, the state, works on a system of standards. Everything is standardized. Health, both physical &psychological, Education, Morals.. everything has a number, a statistic, or a system of norms, that encourage everyone to be "good little soldiers", and fall in line with these commonly, and passively accepted policies. Failure, in fact, to do so, is social &political suicide, for to the state, and the mass of society, there is no room for the individual, and any hint of practicing individualism is swiftly & mercilessly met with criticism, and a lambasting outcry of attacks by the vicious dogs of normality.
                  1) Citation Needed
                  2) Are you applying this to one model of a society or all societies, if the latter then you need lots of citations because different societies work differently
                  3) Before we wage war on standardization too much. Remember that you are able to access the internet (and in fact that there is an internet) because standard protocols exist to allow computers to talk to each other. Standards serve a purpose and if you aren't aware of that purpose and ready to account for it then you will have the distinct privilege of trying to improvise when a critic attacks you on this point.

                  It's a sickening system of military-style tactics. Looking back at the 1700's-1800's, the uniforms worn by soldiers were made to do one thing, and one thing only: inhibit the individual. Collars were designed to be stiffened in a fashion that made it damn-uncomfortable to look around,side-to-side, for the good soldier does not think, the good soldier does. "Eyes forward!" as the field commander would call out. You are not a person, you are a pawn, a unit, a single, expendable member of one all-encompassing collective. Within this raw analogy, lies the very fabric of society, under the state, and the notion of the Social Contract.
                  1) Say it with me, Citation Needed. You have made assertions about military tactics, uniforms and psychology. BACK THEM!
                  2) A word of warning, you've mentioned Hobbes but Social Contract is often linked as much if not more to John Locke. The two had very different views. If you say you're going to rebut Social Contract but only address Hobbes then you've failed to rebut Social Contract.

                  If you were to group together 500 people, and conclude that the average weight of those people was, say, 180 pounds, what is the probability that if you pick any person out of that group, that they will weight exactly 180 pounds? The answer would be pretty slim.. they might come close, or might be somewhat near that target mark, but chances are, the person you pick, will not match the exact statistic. Therefore, thinking critically of this matter, we can safely presume that 180 pounds would be a "normal" weight, correct? That this number is the standard by which all others are judged..? If the answer to that was a yes, then any individual deviating from the golden 180, would then immediately be deemed not normal, different, weird, etc.Statistically speaking, any deviation at all, would fail to meet the criteria of normality. And that's just 500 people, so the margin of error could honestly be quite small with my previous example,however, we again must look as society as the "greater-collective"..so, let's push that number to Ten Thousand, or One Million. The larger the scale, the less important the individual therefore becomes, until that number reaches into the billions of persons. What is the significance then? The statistic is stagnant, and thus, so becomes meaning of the individual, in this example (even though this example is the basis of fact-observed throughout life today, as we know it). The worst part, is that there is a blind acceptance of this system. People no longer look at their self for acceptance, but instead bend minds at the atrocious standards society has placed before them, with the looming thought that the failure to conform to such standards; to be an individual among the collective, is to be unfitting for normality, when in reality, it is reality which is unfitting to the individual.
                  Your grasp of statistics is flawed and it hurts this entire paragraph. If we're going to use statistics and assume an average of 180 then we also have a standard deviation. 62% (this number may be wrong, it's been a while since I took stat) of the population falls within one standard deviation. If for example, the standard deviation is 20 and your mean is 180 then 62% are between 160 lbs and 200 lbs. That range is normal (not necessarily healthy, just normal for the population being studied). 97.5% (again, this could be off) is within two standard deviations or 140-220 lbs in this case. Past two standard dev is the rest of the population and your real outliers. Now go find me some atrocious legal standards as examples.

                  It is here which I make my final case. I have stated why I think the State (government), as well as society are both atrocious, and here's why:


                  Human nature, as well as nature in general is absolute. It is raw, it is real, and it is truthful.
                  Prove it.

                  It is however, not unicorns, and skittles at all times.Human nature is, as it is. To call it "dark" or "evil",or "immoral" is at its own core, immoral, simply because these entities & ideas repress what just is.
                  Define immoral. Demonstrate that your definition is worth using. Then prove the above statement.


                  There are multiple different "Citation Needed" statements in the above paragraph and I'm too lazy to break it up and put them all in. So you'll need to settle for one

                  CITATION NEEDED

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Also I missed the forest for the trees. You spent an essay attacking the concept of society but society does not equal Social Contract. Explain Social Contract to your reader, then explain why it is wrong. When explaining Social Contract, use the text of actual Social Contract theorists to give your explanation weight.
                  life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                  Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                  "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                  John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                  "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                  Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Social Contract & Morality

                    Originally posted by Wardruna View Post
                    That's the thing with Philosophy, as this being my own, I have few sources that can be compared scientifically with anyone else's work. However, I did derive views from some of the following.. It's as close as I can come to sources in their own right:

                    Carl Jung, "The Undiscovered Self"

                    Hobbes: "State of Nature"

                    - - - Updated - - -


                    This is what prompted my thoughts exactly! The materialistic collective is the "governing" power in today's world. I basically made a challenge to that very idea. (This all has stemmed from my very own questions lol)
                    I didn't major in philosophy, but I took quite a few philosophy classes in uni. Although you do not have to back up your views as scientific fact, you do have to have concrete examples of what lead to your conclusions. Especially when you are dealing with morality. As MaskedOne pointed out, you are challenging quite a few views. When you challenge them, you need to reference them directly. Even if you challenge something that is supposedly widely accepted or believed, you still have to provide concrete examples. You can't just say "It is widely accepted that...." or something along those lines. Who are some of the philosophical thinkers who believe that? or, what are some examples in society that reflect that view?

                    In a lower level class, it helps to reference other philosophers that influenced your conclusions. Referencing doesn't just mean tacking references on the end. You have to tie them to your text. That's how referencing works.

                    Comment

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