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    Human Sacrifice

    Originally posted by thalassa View Post


    When it storms, I make Sophia and Collin take a bowl outside, and sit it in the rain. When it is done raining, I make them water their plants with it (because this is how I force religion on my children ). I could just let them turn on the faucet and fill up the watering can...it would be easier and more efficient But even the water in the faucet comes from somewhere. Somewhere that is part of a great cycle of rain and river and ocean and cloud (and aquifers, and swamps, and snowpacks). How much rain does it take for a daily shower? To flush your toilet? To wash the dishes or a car? To water your plants? What do you do when you don't have enough rain to water all the plants enough? How do you choose which plants get the water, or more water?

    If thanking the rain is what it takes for my children to realize they are small, but what decisions they makes have impact, and that there is a cost for every action they take, and they should be reverent for the experience of life, then we will thank the rain.

    Sacrifice, whether it is animal, vegetable, mineral, or manufactured, is a form of thankfulness--its giving up something that is personally important to show reverence. I don't directly sacrifice animals to the gods...that would sort of blasphemy to me, as the gods I worship aren't literal entities like that and they don't need life (or death). But I also know that my experience isn't yours...or SilverShadow's...or Norse_Angel's, and its not fair of me to judge what your relationship (or lack of it) to the world around you (which includes the gods, if you believe in them) tells you you need to do, provided it doesn't infringe on the rights of another human being (or primate, elephant, or cetacean--I draw a line there), and its done with compassion, respect, and humility.
    So if per chance someone was sacrificing a human, you might think it's sketchy, right?
    Right? riiiiiiiiiight. We all have our lines and we all call the judgement on those lines. Who are we to judge some dude killing a child in the name of their god? Yeah, I went there sister.

    Only because you and I can have these conversation that don't technically really matter in the scheme of things. We both just like to shoot the ball back and forth.
    Satan is my spirit animal

    #2
    Re: Sacrifices

    To be really truthful,there "Might" be a few humans that I might consider making a sacrifice of,if only for the betterment of humanity...Take your pick of the historically bad people who we are better of without now...and add a few from the here and now,that we "Might" feel better without(Making a list,and checking it twice,gonna find out who is naughty or nice)

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    Oh,BTW,you can just call me "Dex"
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

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      #3
      Re: Sacrifices

      Originally posted by Medusa View Post
      So if per chance someone was sacrificing a human, you might think it's sketchy, right?
      Right? riiiiiiiiiight. We all have our lines and we all call the judgement on those lines. Who are we to judge some dude killing a child in the name of their god? Yeah, I went there sister.
      Of course you did!


      Well, yeah. Murder is wrong. Period.

      But...murder is always killing, while killing is not always murder.

      Eating meat certainly is killing, but whether or not its murder...the jury is completely out still.

      Killing a child on the other hand, is (almost) always murder. A child (depending on fhe specifics the topic at hand) can't consent to being killed (unless they are in Belgium). A child is also a highly cognitive, and (more or less) potentially autonomous individual human being with the capacity for a high level of consciousness and reason. There is a difference between humans (as a group) and (for example) lions (as a group)--for one, lions don't feel remorse when they eat a zebra...they feel full. They also don't (as a group, and they have this in common with most mammals) feel remorse when they practice infanticide.

      The difference between us and lions is that we've (at least as a practice of our species) culturally evolved (mostly, anyhow) past the point of killing babies to get with the mama.

      Its a bit like shouting Hitler in crowded thread (that was NOT an invocation of Godwin, people)

      Functionally speaking, is there a difference between the commercial slaughter of a cow for the end result of eating a burger, and the private religiously dedicated slaughter of a cow for the end result a burger, with a bit of religion between the two? On one hand...burgers! On the other...the latter is usually more humane, generally supports local farmers, and often results in more of the animal being used.

      And if you look at it that way (even though I don't do it or find it necessary), maybe things would be better if more people sacrificed their food before they ate it.




      Only because you and I can have these conversation that don't technically really matter in the scheme of things. We both just like to shoot the ball back and forth.

      True that!


      (and now that we have totally hijacked the thread, maybe we ought to bow out and give it back)
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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        #4
        Re: Sacrifices

        Originally posted by Medusa View Post
        So if per chance someone was sacrificing a human, you might think it's sketchy, right?
        Right? riiiiiiiiiight. We all have our lines and we all call the judgement on those lines. Who are we to judge some dude killing a child in the name of their god?
        An evil bastard....

        Shrug, humans judge stuff. It's a built-in feature of the species and in the right context, necessary. I have a very violent opinion on child sacrifice posted around here somewhere and it's not one I intend to modify or retract at any point in the foreseeable future. That said, I'm also not in a position to carry out that judgement so it's something of a moot point.
        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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          #5
          Re: Sacrifices

          Didn't people sacrifice their kids to Moloch in the bible? What religion was that? And I do mean that as in I have no idea. I think it was just 'the people before Jesus' religion.
          Satan is my spirit animal

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            #6
            Re: Sacrifices

            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
            Didn't people sacrifice their kids to Moloch in the bible? What religion was that? And I do mean that as in I have no idea. I think it was just 'the people before Jesus' religion.

            Well...its the Bible, so...there's an agenda. But its the Canaanites.

            Though scholars have some issues with the "god named Moloch" business, and some other particulars (I know its Wiki, but I'm tired and lazy tonight).

            But, in the ancient world, human sacrifice happened--but it seems to be a reaction to extreme events (particularly when its children).


            Heck...it still happens, it just looks different.




            People suck.



            But sometimes we are quite spectacular.
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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              #7
              Re: Human Sacrifice

              Yay! We have our own thread. Muahahahaha
              Satan is my spirit animal

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                #8
                Re: Human Sacrifice

                Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                Yay! We have our own thread. Muahahahaha
                Where's the BBQ sauce when you need it?
                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                sigpic

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                  #9
                  Re: Human Sacrifice

                  Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                  Where's the BBQ sauce when you need it?
                  I stole it all.
                  life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                  Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                  "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                  John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                  "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                  Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Human Sacrifice

                    Within Christianity itself, there is evidence of human sacrifice. Sometimes it has been used as a convenient method of getting rid of prisoners of war. This happened in historic times certainly, the sixth century CE author Procopius reported that even Christianity was no bar to making a human sacrifice of the enemy’s women and children at a bridge (Gothic War, 2.25 .10 f.).
                    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                      #11
                      Re: Human Sacrifice

                      Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                      Within Christianity itself, there is evidence of human sacrifice. Sometimes it has been used as a convenient method of getting rid of prisoners of war. This happened in historic times certainly, the sixth century CE author Procopius reported that even Christianity was no bar to making a human sacrifice of the enemy’s women and children at a bridge (Gothic War, 2.25 .10 f.).
                      There's also the Isaac story - short form:

                      God tells Abe to sacrifice his son, Isaac. Abe gets all set up for the killin' when God pops out from behind a bush and says "Hey! I was only foolin'. Don't you be doin' that."

                      Some historians see this as a story intended to stop the sacrifice of children by Jews.

                      I'm not a historian. Take this as you will.
                      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Human Sacrifice

                        Yup,yup,yup....

                        MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                        all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                        NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                        don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                        sigpic

                        my new page here,let me know what you think.


                        nothing but the shadow of what was

                        witchvox
                        http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Human Sacrifice

                          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                          So if per chance someone was sacrificing a human, you might think it's sketchy, right?
                          Right? riiiiiiiiiight. We all have our lines and we all call the judgement on those lines. Who are we to judge some dude killing a child in the name of their god? Yeah, I went there sister.

                          Only because you and I can have these conversation that don't technically really matter in the scheme of things. We both just like to shoot the ball back and forth.
                          Is he going to eat the child afterwards? And did he raise and kill it humanely or did he torture it first?

                          The problem with sacrifice debates is this right here... as in the direction this is going (has gone).

                          There's a pretty big difference between sacrificing a food animal to your god in a humane manner and eating it afterwards, and torturing a small child to death in the name of your god. They are not the same thing. So why can't we discuss what we're actually talking about when we start talking about sacrifices? Why do we always end up with the dead child scenario?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Human Sacrifice

                            Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                            There's a pretty big difference between sacrificing a food animal to your god in a humane manner and eating it afterwards, and torturing a small child to death in the name of your god. They are not the same thing. So why can't we discuss what we're actually talking about when we start talking about sacrifices? Why do we always end up with the dead child scenario?
                            Possibly because human sacrifice IS part of history, and history is made up largely of pagans. The two things actually go together.

                            I've been here a long time. I actually have run into people who are pro-human sacrifice. I've been told by such people that I have no business judging them for it.

                            I beg to differ.

                            No, "beg" is the wrong is the wrong word. Let me rephrase that.

                            I thing that such a person is an *****. (fill in the blank with the most insulting word you can imagine)
                            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Human Sacrifice

                              Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                              Possibly because human sacrifice IS part of history, and history is made up largely of pagans. The two things actually go together.

                              I've been here a long time. I actually have run into people who are pro-human sacrifice. I've been told by such people that I have no business judging them for it.

                              I beg to differ.

                              No, "beg" is the wrong is the wrong word. Let me rephrase that.

                              I thing that such a person is an *****. (fill in the blank with the most insulting word you can imagine)
                              Oh I agree. I just don't think that we need to be tarring all sacrifice with the 'dead child' brush.

                              Which I imagine is really why this section was split off from the original discussion. I've been involved in a lot of animal sacrifice discussions, and it eventually comes down to 'well if you believe in animal sacrifice then what about humans, huh, huh?'.

                              The historical context of sacrifice (either animal or human) is not the same as the modern context... and that's not even considering that the historical context of sacrifice was entirely dependent on the cultures who practiced it (ie the Aztecs vs the Norse). But it's one of those things that gets all muddied up because some people use history as justification for the modern practice, without really understanding the context and objectives.

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