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Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

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    #16
    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
    I think some people don't get how to separate this from how the death penalty is actually carried out.

    I mean, I don't support the death penalty because the system sucks...but I totally think that some things are so heinous that the perpetrators deserve to die (and TBH, they deserve to die in ways far more brutal than lethal injection).
    Your opening post treats it as a system instead of the straightforward do people occasionally deserve to die. Even if we improve the system, human error will continue to factor in. Now offer me a perfect system (and convince me that it is what it claims)...

    I'm on record (on PF, even) advocating tactics that would make Vlad Tepes proud in response to certain behavior and I'm not at all apologetic about it.
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #17
      Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

      I find this article quite disturbing on the topic. Many innocent people have been executed, and when new information comes, proving their innocence, there is nothing one can do for that person.
      Just a moment...
      http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executed-possibly-innocent
      "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
      And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
      They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
      The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
      - Finn's Saga

      http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

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        #18
        Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

        Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
        I find this article quite disturbing on the topic. Many innocent people have been executed, and when new information comes, proving their innocence, there is nothing one can do for that person.
        http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/exec...sibly-innocent
        I feel that.

        But technically many innocent people are killed by murderers too.
        Satan is my spirit animal

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          #19
          Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
          I feel that.

          But technically many innocent people are killed by murderers too.
          Absolutely agreed. It's such a grey area when it comes to this.
          "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
          And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
          They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
          The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
          - Finn's Saga

          http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

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            #20
            Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
            I feel that.

            But technically many innocent people are killed by murderers too.
            That's true, but they weren't killed with my taxpayer dollars.

            Comment

              #21
              Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

              Well,that is also a grey area because your tax dollars go to the military as well,and that includes the big drones that bring death from above....
              MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

              all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
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                #22
                Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

                Originally posted by Redfaery View Post
                That's true, but they weren't killed with my taxpayer dollars.
                Oh you have no real idea what your taxpayer dollars are really paying for. To put a murderer to death is the least of our worries.
                Satan is my spirit animal

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                  #23
                  Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

                  Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                  On principle... some crimes warrant execution.

                  In practice, I have issues with the number of mistakes we make on the subject.

                  End result, there are a number of people who I won't regret the execution of in the slightest but if placed on a legislature and told to vote yea or nea on the existence of capital punishment in the US* there's a passable chance that I'll vote nea.

                  * I qualify this because the US (and a lot of other places) possess relatively reliable means to keep prisoners contained. You put me somewhere I don't have such a massive set of institutions at my disposal and the rules will change very quickly. If I can't reliably contain monsters indefinitely then I'll happily back killing them.

                  This is about my stance too.

                  We did a debate once, and I had to defend the pro-death penalty side (we didn't get to choose which side, the point was to push us out of comfort zones); anyway one of the biggest and all-permeating reasons for death penalty was the amount of money people pay to keep murderers fed, clothed, sheltered, etc... in prisons and with the death penalty there's a one-time fee for the termination cost and that's the end of the financial investment. Which to me... basically comes down to this: money > humans.

                  I don't know, just something about that mentality irks me. If it was more a case of : some people are just wired to kill repeatedly because it's something they enjoy doing and they feel that need to do it, and no amount of therapy or medication will stunt that, I would probably look at it a bit differently (although there are some ethical and circumstantial issues in all that too).

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                    #24
                    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

                    Originally posted by Ljubezen View Post
                    This is about my stance too.

                    We did a debate once, and I had to defend the pro-death penalty side (we didn't get to choose which side, the point was to push us out of comfort zones); anyway one of the biggest and all-permeating reasons for death penalty was the amount of money people pay to keep murderers fed, clothed, sheltered, etc... in prisons and with the death penalty there's a one-time fee for the termination cost and that's the end of the financial investment. Which to me... basically comes down to this: money > humans.

                    I don't know, just something about that mentality irks me. If it was more a case of : some people are just wired to kill repeatedly because it's something they enjoy doing and they feel that need to do it, and no amount of therapy or medication will stunt that, I would probably look at it a bit differently (although there are some ethical and circumstantial issues in all that too).
                    It's not about the money for me either. I mean I'm supporting all kinds of things in the end. Feeding you. Killing you. Whatevs.

                    It's about consequences for me. If you murder you forfeit your right to anything else..including life. I mean the murderer is doing this. Forfeiting someone's life for whatever they deem ok with in their mind. We are doing the same. You want to be ok with making that decision to end a life...then someone's gonna do the same for you. It seems fair to me. But I know I'm an extreme personality on this.
                    Satan is my spirit animal

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                      #25
                      Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

                      Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                      It's not about the money for me either. I mean I'm supporting all kinds of things in the end. Feeding you. Killing you. Whatevs.

                      It's about consequences for me. If you murder you forfeit your right to anything else..including life. I mean the murderer is doing this. Forfeiting someone's life for whatever they deem ok with in their mind. We are doing the same. You want to be ok with making that decision to end a life...then someone's gonna do the same for you. It seems fair to me. But I know I'm an extreme personality on this.
                      I absolutely understand and respect that too. And then there are degrees of murder, like... accidental manslaughter or whatever the correct sentence is. Or there are people are just.... psychopaths and just feel they need to kill without rhyme or reason (which is where I support capital punishment). There are just so many gradients too.

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                        #26
                        Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

                        Originally posted by Ljubezen View Post
                        I absolutely understand and respect that too. And then there are degrees of murder, like... accidental manslaughter or whatever the correct sentence is. Or there are people are just.... psychopaths and just feel they need to kill without rhyme or reason (which is where I support capital punishment). There are just so many gradients too.
                        Yes, there are many gradients. Thus many rules for many crimes.
                        Satan is my spirit animal

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