View Poll Results: The death penalty is...

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  • morally justifyable

    1 7.69%
  • not morally justifyable

    4 30.77%
  • morally justifyable under certain conditions

    7 53.85%
  • Uncertain

    1 7.69%
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Thread: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

  1. #1
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    THIS THREAD IS NOT A DEBATE.

    Let me repeat that again.

    THIS THREAD IS NOT A DEBATE.


    Now that the non-debate nature of this thread has been established, I'd like to hear your OPINIONS. Also, your justification of your opinions.


    Do you think the death penalty is right or wrong? Why? Are there extraneous factors that change your opinion of the application of the death penalty (like the method of execution or the problem of circumstantial evidence)?



    (today's question spawned by Chickadee asking me "Is the death penalty good or bad?" after hearing a story on Utah's potential legislation allowing firing squads, after answering the question "what is the death penalty?")
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
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    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
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    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

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  2. #2
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    Though I dislike the idea of taking a life(I think it is mainly based on a revenge thing) there are certain acts that I would consider warrant death. If someone kills with no bad intent,as in a crime of passion,life in jail...If someone kills with no reason but killing as a thing,with no regret,then death.
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  3. #3
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    IMO (and close to what I told the munchkin):

    I'm don't morally object to the killing of murderers. People do some horrible things to one another, and I think sometimes, more* than just murderers should be killed for their actions (and in some cases, I don't think a convicted murderer should be executed). Some of the horrible things people do are so bad that those people do not deserve to live.
    But I don't support the death penalty because too often our justice system gets it wrong. I don't support the idea of killing as a punishment when we so often get it wrong and when who gets put on death row is more often a function of race and income (for both the perpetrator and the victim) than not.


    *Repeat offenders of pedophilia, rape, child abuse, torture...also those that commit such crimes as those that are especially brutal and come close to killing the victim.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

    Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible

  4. #4
    Nihilistic Goddess Medusa's Avatar
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    I am for the death penalty. I mean I'm for abortion so I can't be a hypocrite and be like yeah well you made it out of the womb...no consequences for your actions now. Go you. (not that there is a penalty against you while you are in the womb. I mean you aren't even you) But you get what I mean.
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    In certain instances it's warranted. If I were to ever kill a mass grouping of people for no apparent reason, I wouldn't want to be lethally injected. There are one or two states in the United States who still allow firing squads (forgetting which one) and that's how I would prefer to be executed. That's just me though.
    On the other hand, I don't like the idea of some of the most heinous people dying a painless death. Let them
    rot in prison, calling some big guy daddy.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    On principle... some crimes warrant execution.

    In practice, I have issues with the number of mistakes we make on the subject.

    End result, there are a number of people who I won't regret the execution of in the slightest but if placed on a legislature and told to vote yea or nea on the existence of capital punishment in the US* there's a passable chance that I'll vote nea.

    * I qualify this because the US (and a lot of other places) possess relatively reliable means to keep prisoners contained. You put me somewhere I don't have such a massive set of institutions at my disposal and the rules will change very quickly. If I can't reliably contain monsters indefinitely then I'll happily back killing them.
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  7. #7
    Moderator Azvanna's Avatar
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    There was a lot of talk about this recently in Australia with two of our own scheduled to be executed in Indonesia for drug trafficking (Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran). They were arrested nearly ten years ago and sentenced to death a year later, but there has been such a long delay in the process of the law. There are some people who think that the death penality is barbaric and are passionately advocating for their release while others believe that even if they don't deserve to die, they knew that Indonesia upheld the Death Penalty for drug trafficking and took the risk of death when they committed the crime.

    My bias against recreational drug use that leaves a person out of control is huge, so in my opinion I really don't care if they die. They both have made the claim that they are rehabilitated which is wonderful. It's amazing how the threat of death puts things into perspective. That's probably the most heartless few sentences you'll ever hear me saying, but I just cannot find any pity for them.

    I think having the death penality as an option in the law system is a risk because there can be the risk of executing an innocent person. However, I am also against using taxpayer money to keep someone healthy, well fed and entertained who has committed heinous crimes against the community.

    The Death Penalty exists to obliterate people from a society who can not only function within it, but who are utterly destructive. It's a very dangerous aspect of law to incorporate and the fact that there would have to be so many conditions placed on it would leave me wondering if its worth including. So in practicality, it would be difficult to support even if I thought that some people should have their right to live destroyed.

  8. #8
    Supporter kalynraye's Avatar
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    I am for the death penalty(in certain instances) and pro-choice. As Duce said I'm not a hypocrite. I am not so sure that I have any right deciding who lives or dies but I do believe there are very very bad people in this world.
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  9. #9
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    No. No. and No. And this is my reasoning:
    I do not want the state killing people in my name. I do not want the state to become just as bad as the people it executes. A state cannot claim the moral high ground if it kills its citizens - no, not even for murder. There is much to be learned from studying murderers, why they become the way they do, and perhaps preventing such crimes in future, anyway.

    For me - and I know I'm a lone voice here so far - living in a country that executed its citizens would be to live in a state of barbarism. Too many have been later found innocent - and once dead, they cannot be brought back.

    That said, although people believe the UK doesn't have the death penalty, actually there is one crime, High Treason, that still has that penalty. (i.e. murdering a monarch.)
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  10. #10
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Right or Wrong #1: Death Penalty

    I'm glad this isn't a debate because with my recent tentative conversion to Buddhism, I'd have to stay out ("right speech" means - among other things - not advocating death). While this may seem like an evasion, it is necessary to preserve my sanity.

    But I can say this: anybody who didn't pick "morally justifiable under certain conditions" is living in La-la Land, and is not informed of the kinds of horrendous crime that one person enjoys perpetrating on others. I suggest that people actually become informed.

    However, "morally justifiable under certain conditions" doesn't mean it must be done. It just means that there are some crimes so bad that the perpetrator deserves to die for committing them.

    I've been clearing some of the crap out of my brain, and those of you who know me will recognize that this is a big change. I no longer advocate the death penalty - even though it is clearly and obviously morally justified under certain conditions.

    But I can still say that some people ought to be thrown in prison for eternity, and, if their souls could be kept in a bottle, that bottle should be buried in a deep, dark place full of excrement.
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