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    Guns

    Oh yes, controversial topic. How many of us own a handgun, rifle, or any type of firearm? For the United States, do you feel our gun laws are effective, or should their be more/less governmental involvement in our right to bear arms (rawr)
    For outside of The United States, what are your governments laws like with permits, open carry, and differing types of rifles? I know some countries outlawed conceal and carry, and some have even outlawed the ownership of handguns.
    Feel free to give any type of stories relating to your experience with your guns. Do you go hunting? Shooting? Have you ever had to use your gun for protection?
    Fire away friends
    "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
    And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
    They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
    The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
    - Finn's Saga

    http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/


    #2
    Re: Guns

    My family has a small collection that I've practiced with several of over the years. If I can see the target and I'm familiar with the weapon then I'll generally hit within 2-3 inches of where I want. Past that, I enjoy them and I prefer to have them available (both on principle and because I enjoy working with them) but I also think a lot of people put too much emphasis on them. The time and dedication to make most people reliably dangerous with a firearm will also make them dangerous with a dozen other things and if the amount of energy spent debating gun rights was put into reining in far more immediate issues in our government than we wouldn't have to worry about a government going sufficiently batshit insane that we'd need to look for checks on tyrranny.
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #3
      Re: Guns

      I never imagined I'd be a good shot, but I am. Kill zone good, left-handed grip (and I'm right-handed.) Go figure. Ruger SP-101, also a surprise - I thought I'd prefer something tiny and light.
      sigpic
      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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        #4
        Re: Guns

        Personally speaking most countries including my own don't have what I would consider to be proper gun and weapon ownership laws.

        The only one that I can think of off the top of my head would be Japan - where permitting processes are tedious, extensive, and only permit those who have legitimate reason and need to acquire a firearm or bladed weapon, with most guns banned completely from public ownership even within this context (only a select few shotguns are permitted, with handguns and rifles banned completely); production of firearms is restricted and under continuous watch, and sales are meticulously observed; penalties for violations are harsh (possession is enough to earn eight years on the spot); and the law enforcement officials are given sufficient powers and resources to enforce the law properly.

        The people should not have access to firearms or bladed weapons, with very limited exceptions based on need, and only the law enforcement officials (particularly specialist units) and the active duty military should be armed. That's my thoughts on the matter.

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          #5
          Re: Guns

          Originally posted by LunarHarvest View Post

          The people should not have access to firearms or bladed weapons, with very limited exceptions based on need, and only the law enforcement officials (particularly specialist units) and the active duty military should be armed. That's my thoughts on the matter.
          I'm sorry, but I honestly think this is a horrible idea given the history of human civilization and governance.


          With that being said...I've been around guns a bit. My family has owned guns most of my life, but they were not kept out because "guns are killing tools" and "anyone can get to them". Plus, I was in the military (so was the hubby). And hubby hunts and we do CW reenacting. I just like to shoot. I sometimes get to shoot with some pretty effing awesome people...last time I got to shoot was with NCIS agents doing an active shooter course. I've also gotten to shoot with FAST Company and the sim range for boarding vessels. I'm a fairly good shot with a rifle, but I've not found a handgun I can use comfortably due to carpal tunnel and elbow and shoulder issues (recoil sucks). I get to (occasionally) work with people that actually use their weapons for the eventuality/potential of shooting "bad guys with guns"...and I will say that from my observation and experience its not as simple as just being able to hit a target.

          I think that the 2nd amendment doesn't read (in a constitutional sense) as those that oppose any gun laws think it does--as a historical reenactor, there are certain realities about muzzle loaders that do not bear out with modern fire arms. And I support reasonable restrictions on types of arms, training and ability/proficience and experience requirements (and I don't just mean being able to shoot a target--in a real world scenario, there's a bit more to tactics than being able hit what you aim at) and a reason for concealed carry, training and ability/proficiency requirements for open carry, transportation requirements, and who can buy/sell arms. I also think that gun owners should be licensed (I like the FOID card that IL uses), but not individual fire arms (which IL does not require as some states do) and that there should be a good database for people that are prohibited from carrying guns.

          I absolutely recognize that this makes it harder for law abiding citizens to own weapons, and as a law abiding citizen, I'm fine with that. Because I'm willing to jump through the hoops to own my guns. Someone who refuses to do or is unable to do so probably isn't someone I want owning them in the first place, and I am more than fine with them then being illegal gun owners. I'm completely okay with the idea that illegal gun owners can be arrested simply for having guns. Or for buying and selling them illegally.
          Last edited by thalassa; 11 Apr 2015, 13:32.
          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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            #6
            Re: Guns

            Originally posted by LunarHarvest View Post
            The people should not have access to firearms or bladed weapons, with very limited exceptions based on need, and only the law enforcement officials (particularly specialist units) and the active duty military should be armed. That's my thoughts on the matter.
            Mmm.. We can see a lot of differences in culture when we face off Japan vs The United States. Firstly, I'll point out that Chicago attempted to ban handguns. Not only did this lead to more violent shootings by gangs and their affiliates, it left the majority of the populace unprotected. If I were to have to choose to rob Man A vs Man B, if I knew both could not legally own a weapon, it wouldn't matter to me which I picked. But if I knew that Man B had a gun, while Man A did not, I would of course try to stick up Man A. Now if I knew both had a gun, it would deter me from robbing either. There are a lot of videos on YouTube of would-be-muggings where the act was stopped by the would-be victim pulling out a firearm.
            In a perfect world, no one has the advantage over the other. But in the case of Chicago, this left the criminals well armed, and the regular populace open for attack. I feel that in any case, there will always be one reason or another to want a firearm in the states. Firstly, we can point to how this country earned its independence. No, we did not have an organized military in the beginning. It was every day citizens, on farmlands, and cities, who owned rifles for sport, or protection, that used them, not only for protection, but for freedom. They attempted to disarm the populace, but failed miserably. This is the birth of our second amendment right. We can fast forward to modern day times. The right to bear arms is a very loosely defined amendment. Of course a citizen can not own a tank, or a military grade fully automatic assault rifle, or a ballistic missile. How I interpret our laws is that we have a right to protect ourselves to the point of comfort. No, I do not need an AK47 to protect my home. Nor do I need a drone to go hunting.
            There is also a fine line between the idiots who scream that the government is revoking our 2nd amendment, and reality. There is also a fine line between the idiots in America (no offense to you what so ever) who think guns should only be in hands of those sworn to protect our country vs those who want laws implemented for background checks and psychological tests on those who want to own a firearm. I myself, do not think the gov is trying to take away my handgun. There is no sense in that. But I believe that there should be stricter laws in owning one, and the process of obtaining one. In Illinois, you must be 21 to get a FOID card, which is the permit to own. I think this is wrong. If one can join the military at age 18, and be trained to kill with guns a lot more powerful than what we as citizens can own, they should too be able to own a handgun. But in the military, one does go through background checks, and psychological evaluations before even getting started. I think to own a firearm, one must go through the same evaluations on a civilian level. As well with the military, there is extensive training one must go through before being handed a military grade weapon. Same thing should be implemented in the states. One should have to go through 8-12 hours of training, and familiarization with the firearms they will be permitted to use. That's my own thought though.
            On a different topic, no I do not feel comfortable in the fact that there are police with guns. For how many people have been killed this year by police negligence, or abuse of power, no. I feel comfortable that I can grab my 9mm, or my .22 to intercept someone breaking into my house, rather than locking a door, and going for my phone. I also feel comfortable that if I was ever put into a situation where I was being abused by one in power, I could stand my ground equally.
            "In the shade now tall forms are advancing,
            And their wan hands like snowflakes in the moonlight are gleaming;
            They beckon, they whisper, 'Oh! strong armed in valor,
            The pale guests await thee - mead foams in Valhalla.'"
            - Finn's Saga

            http://hoodednorseman.tumblr.com/

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Guns

              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
              I absolutely recognize that this makes it harder for law abiding citizens to own weapons, and as a law abiding citizen, I'm fine with that. Because I'm willing to jump through the hoops to own my guns. Someone who refuses to do or is unable to do so probably isn't someone I want owning them in the first place, and I am more than fine with them then being illegal gun owners. I'm completely okay with the idea that illegal gun owners can be arrested simply for having guns. Or for buying and selling them illegally.
              It is funny that you worded that in the way that you did.

              Due to the tendency toward outlawing gun ownership, and the spirit behind the 2nd Amendment, I am more than willing to jump through hoops to keep my gun ownership off the records. I do not own a single gun that is registered to me... Every gun that I own was either a gift, or purchased from a private seller. And I like it that way. I am certain that Thomas Jefferson, if he lived today, would support encrypted communication. The 4th amendment is behind me on this. The government doesn't need to know who is armed... after all, they are, potentially, the ultimate enemy, this country exists because of a civilian uprising against the government... that is why the 2nd Amendment exists.
              "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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                #8
                Re: Guns

                Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
                It is funny that you worded that in the way that you did.

                Due to the tendency toward outlawing gun ownership, and the spirit behind the 2nd Amendment, I am more than willing to jump through hoops to keep my gun ownership off the records. I do not own a single gun that is registered to me... Every gun that I own was either a gift, or purchased from a private seller. And I like it that way. I am certain that Thomas Jefferson, if he lived today, would support encrypted communication. The 4th amendment is behind me on this. The government doesn't need to know who is armed... after all, they are, potentially, the ultimate enemy, this country exists because of a civilian uprising against the government... that is why the 2nd Amendment exists.

                I think that the idea that there is a tendency towards outlawing gun ownership is a bit like saying that there is a widespread movement to ensure that minorities and women aren't allowed to vote. IMO, its a hyperbolic distraction.

                And for that matter, I don't think that individual guns should be registered.

                For example, Illinois has a FOID card. You can have a FOID card WITHOUT owning guns (needed it for using the range). You can have a FOID card AND own guns (and you don't register your guns as part of getting the card). All the FOID card means is that you've been background checked and are in the state's database as being authorized to buy/sell/own a gun. We have done all of these when we lived in Illinois. Now, conceivably do "they" know if I buy a gun because its somehow linked to my FOID card, maybe...but if I paid anything other than cash, "they" would probably know anyhow.

                Thomas Jefferson is an interesting man of lofty ideals and supreme pragmatism. He was also a hypocrite, a bigot, and a spendthrift.

                We restrict rights all the time...look at voting.
                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                  #9
                  Re: Guns

                  Speaking of Thomas Jefferson
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #10
                    Re: Guns

                    I own a gun and my parents own guns. My mother owns my Grandpa's old police gun. My father owns some hunting guns. I think it is important that we have the right to own guns. I think though that we are responsible with them. My gun is never loaded, that way I can never hurt anyone. I think we need to have laws on certain guns, but for the most part guns need to be kept a freedom for us.
                    Anubisa

                    Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

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                      #11
                      Re: Guns

                      In the UK citizens gave up their right to bear arms without any sort of licence or restraint when we had a police force. The majority of our police are still unarmed, apart from the special Armed Response Units.
                      I really wouldn't like to see that change any time soon.
                      It's a question of viewpoint. I feel safer unarmed, with the police unarmed than I would armed, with the police armed.
                      I appreciate though that in other parts of the world people feel differently.
                      www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                      Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                        #12
                        Re: Guns

                        Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
                        Mmm.. We can see a lot of differences in culture when we face off Japan vs The United States. Firstly, I'll point out that Chicago attempted to ban handguns. Not only did this lead to more violent shootings by gangs and their affiliates, it left the majority of the populace unprotected.
                        Here’s the immediate problem with this example: your comparing a national policy with the actions a city took. Have you seen any inspection or customs officials searching people at the entrances to cities? I certainly haven’t, so when a single city bans a weapon then it becomes simple and easy to simply move those weapons to and fro in said area. In contrast, a national policy of gun laws is much more effective, and leads to a much more effective enforcement - especially if search and seizure powers are expanded, consequences for violations are made preventative and enforced universally, and more resources placed into customs inspection and to the enforcement of the law.

                        Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
                        Now if I knew both had a gun, it would deter me from robbing either. There are a lot of videos on YouTube of would-be-muggings where the act was stopped by the would-be victim pulling out a firearm.
                        And there are plenty – without going into the deep and unsinkable hole that is government statistics (give meh a break…is after work and Imma sleepy –v–) I would say a proportional amount – of examples of people who posed no threat to an individual, or who were mistaken for a threat, being shot and killed by firearms. One particular example I am reminded of is of a Japanese exchange student who went to a party and accidently entered the wrong house, didn't understand the person in the house, and ended up with a .44 Magnum through the skull.

                        In addition, in an ideal world, each person would be perfectly rational and able to be trusted with a firearm, but that is not the case. Human beings often act without consideration of consequence, and expansive ownership of firearms can only serve to add a deadly aspect to these things. Many murders and assaults happen in the heat of the moment after all, which means they aren't planned.

                        Firearm ownership is really only a legal right in the States. Mexico has a similar clause, but it does not properly follow it, so its essentially null. That being said, It is not a ward against tyranny nor is it an assurance of democracy, as many dictatorships have used an armed populace to establish themselves, and many dictatorships have fallen without the people using weapons of war against them.

                        Originally posted by Norse_Angel View Post
                        On a different topic, no I do not feel comfortable in the fact that there are police with guns. For how many people have been killed this year by police negligence, or abuse of power, no.
                        Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                        It's a question of viewpoint. I feel safer unarmed, with the police unarmed than I would armed, with the police armed.
                        I appreciate though that in other parts of the world people feel differently.
                        This too. I just don't understand how having the power to kill someone, or knowing that other people around you have the same power, is comforting in any way. I can certainly respect that others feel differently, but I have to agree with this that I think it does come down to a confliction of viewpoints in regards to safety, purpose of firearms, personal comfort, et cetera. So I hope I didn't offend anyone with my comments. ^-^

                        Now that being said, I do have my beliefs on the subject, and I will share them and argue for them if prompted to. >v<
                        Last edited by LunarHarvest; 12 Apr 2015, 00:33.

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                          #13
                          Re: Guns

                          Everyone loves amendment 2 like it's their mamma's teet.
                          I personally adore Amendment 9 especially for people like me. I mean who expected an Atheist Satanic pro choice pro death penalty animal eater to have been around during olden times? This amendment surely did.
                          Satan is my spirit animal

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                            #14
                            Re: Guns

                            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                            Everyone loves amendment 2 like it's their mamma's teet.
                            I personally adore Amendment 9 especially for people like me. I mean who expected an Atheist Satanic pro choice pro death penalty animal eater to have been around during olden times? This amendment surely did.
                            Have I ever told you that I love you?

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                            In the UK citizens gave up their right to bear arms without any sort of licence or restraint when we had a police force. The majority of our police are still unarmed, apart from the special Armed Response Units.
                            I really wouldn't like to see that change any time soon.
                            It's a question of viewpoint. I feel safer unarmed, with the police unarmed than I would armed, with the police armed.
                            I appreciate though that in other parts of the world people feel differently.
                            Interestingly... it was the oppression of the British government that led the writers of the American Constitution to add the 2nd Amendment. It required the application of armed resistance to get out from under an oppressive regime.

                            A responsible government has nothing to worry about from an armed citizenry.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            Originally posted by LunarHarvest View Post
                            This too. I just don't understand how having the power to kill someone, or knowing that other people around you have the same power, is comforting in any way. I can certainly respect that others feel differently, but I have to agree with this that I think it does come down to a confliction of viewpoints in regards to safety, purpose of firearms, personal comfort, et cetera.
                            Firearms are equalizers. I am a fairly large and (if I may say so myself) strong man... I am certain that I could kill a person with my bare hands (I've never tested this theory).

                            I am incredibly supportive of my fiancee having personal protection (in the form of a firearm)... not so much because I think that something is likely to happen to her... but because I encourage preparedness.

                            I am incredibly supportive of my country having personal protection (in the form of a firearm)... not so much because I think that something is likely to happen to her... but because I encourage preparedness.
                            "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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                              #15
                              Re: Guns

                              Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post

                              Interestingly... it was the oppression of the British government that led the writers of the American Constitution to add the 2nd Amendment. It required the application of armed resistance to get out from under an oppressive regime.

                              A responsible government has nothing to worry about from an armed citizenry.
                              Oh the British Government are an oppressive lot. It's just that in the US everyone seems to be able to have a firearm while over here it's mostly the criminals who have them!
                              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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