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    #16
    Re: Allowances

    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
    Sure we do. I have a job. I get paid to go to work. As long as I am minimally competent and do my job, I get paid the same as if I bust my ***. In fact, if I bust my ***, I get MORE work with higher expectations, because I'm now held to a higher standard with shorter deadlines. I don't get more money or promotions for more productivity, I just get more work. For me, that isn't a problem... I am incapable of doing anything half-***ed. I'm not terribly ambitious, nor am I a perfectionist, but I can't stand to not have anything to do and I don't like sloppy jobs. If you are going to do something, it should be done right and preferably the first time. I believe in taking responsibility for one's actions, including mistakes. Unless someone is doing piecework, getting paid by the pound, etc, what you actually do has nothing to do with what you actually make, as long as you show up on time and go through the motions. And this is true in most job sectors, whether its fast food or the military. Trust me--I worked at McDonalds in high school, and I never got paid more for being faster or more accurate or having better customer service--your raise was based on whether or not you were buddy buddy with the manager. Not much different from making rank in the military--as long as I scored well on a test and my chain of command liked me, I was golden.
    Although I suppose you're right, I still think that paying kids to go to school is problematic. "Showing up" isn't just a job thing, it's a life thing. There are all sorts of things you have to show up for that don't involve money, like college (which I guess involves money, if we mean PAYING money), clubs, church (if you go), family events, etc. School is one of those things that should be a given, in my opinion. I want my kids to go to school because they want to learn and want to build a future for themselves, not because I'm essentially bribing them to go. School is not a job.

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      #17
      Re: Allowances

      Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
      I want my kids to go to school because they want to learn and want to build a future for themselves, not because I'm essentially bribing them to go. School is not a job.
      I think most people want their kids to go to school because they want to learn and build a future for themselves. But if there is anything I've learned as a parent, its that 1) parenting only gets you so far in influencing your children and 2) school is not the Mecca of learning for all children.

      For some kids school IS a job (a job being work that you really just do because you have to). And lets be honest, you can learn anywhere. If anything, I'd say school kills the innate desire to learn in as many kids as it inspires...with most kids falling somewhere in the middle. I was a kid that was mostly great at school. My husband, not so much. One kid is good at school, the other not so much. Neither of my brothers are great at school, but one is better than the other when it comes to trying.

      I believe in the intrinsic reward of learning (as does the Hubby). I just don't think that school is the place that it is best expressed or fostered for all children. Nor do I think school success really translates to life success. Sure, a good education helps, but there are plenty of PhD candidates working at Starbucks...I make more money than the girl in the office next to me that has a master's degree (I have more actual experience). My dad has an associates degree and still became a partner in an engineering firm--because he had experience, a good work ethic, and the big boss liked him.

      If paying them to do a job they hate helps them get through the day, I'm a pragmatist (studies on paying kids for grades or to go to school are mixed, but actually seem to favor paying for attendance vs. paying for good grades/test scores, and tend to show gains when the programs are well designed, but are no panacea).
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
      sigpic

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        #18
        Re: Allowances

        Originally posted by thalassa View Post
        I think most people want their kids to go to school because they want to learn and build a future for themselves. But if there is anything I've learned as a parent, its that 1) parenting only gets you so far in influencing your children and 2) school is not the Mecca of learning for all children.

        For some kids school IS a job (a job being work that you really just do because you have to). And lets be honest, you can learn anywhere. If anything, I'd say school kills the innate desire to learn in as many kids as it inspires...with most kids falling somewhere in the middle. I was a kid that was mostly great at school. My husband, not so much. One kid is good at school, the other not so much. Neither of my brothers are great at school, but one is better than the other when it comes to trying.

        I believe in the intrinsic reward of learning (as does the Hubby). I just don't think that school is the place that it is best expressed or fostered for all children. Nor do I think school success really translates to life success. Sure, a good education helps, but there are plenty of PhD candidates working at Starbucks...I make more money than the girl in the office next to me that has a master's degree (I have more actual experience). My dad has an associates degree and still became a partner in an engineering firm--because he had experience, a good work ethic, and the big boss liked him.

        If paying them to do a job they hate helps them get through the day, I'm a pragmatist (studies on paying kids for grades or to go to school are mixed, but actually seem to favor paying for attendance vs. paying for good grades/test scores, and tend to show gains when the programs are well designed, but are no panacea).
        I don't totally disagree with you. I just really dislike the idea of using money as an incentive to go to school. I'd rather somehow tie it to some other kind of success, like getting to do something they really want to do as a reward, or having a great year-end party to celebrate exam results, or something like that. I guess I'll have to see how things go when I actually have kids, though. I think part of the reason I'm so against it is because my parents were, and they told us about it a lot (we asked them a few times because some of our friends got money for passing tests and good report cards and stuff). That being said, they were HUGE on punishments for not doing well in school. I never got punished because I always had great grades and always tried, but my brother got grounded, had his computer taken away, got his TV privileges revoked, etc. It wasn't really about his grades...it was that he didn't really try.

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          #19
          Re: Allowances

          I know a couple of kids I'd pay not to go to school.

          - - - Updated - - -

          I gave my kids an allowance because they needed money, and it was better to have a set sum than it was to dole out bits at a time.

          I did not pay them for doing chores.

          They were my kids, not my employees.

          The allowance they got was for simply existing in the family, and they got it whether they did their work or not.

          The chores were just a part of being in a family, and if they didn't do them, it was a problem for the whole family, because then other people had to do them, and they weren't happy about it.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #20
            Re: Allowances

            Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
            ^^^ Agree. I've literally been told "we don't pay you to think". Creativity/vision are a threat to the powers that be.
            Me too!!

            As for an allowance, I never had one but I never wanted for anything. However, I would have appreciated the learning skill that comes along with managing an income. So, maybe EJ will get a very small allowance one day. My first idea was to wait til he had an income from a job and then teach budgeting, but I think if he's earning his own money for the first time, he may not want to listen to me then. So maybe I could start early.

            I liked your idea, Thalassa, of teaching resource management to your children particularly that example you gave a little while ago of giving your children only so much water to water the plants. I wonder how budgeting could be taught in a similar way.

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              #21
              Re: Allowances

              Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post

              The chores were just a part of being in a family, and if they didn't do them, it was a problem for the whole family, because then other people had to do them, and they weren't happy about it.
              Agreed. This is very important for me to teach EJ.

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                #22
                Re: Allowances

                Our biological kids didn't have allowances per se. We gave them opportunities to earn money when there was something they wanted that was beyond a certain monetary value. For example, when the Lord of the Rings movies came out, my son wanted a replica sword - so we'd give him money for helping around the house and he saved the $250-300 it cost (can't remember) himself. Fast forward to this year - he's just turned 18 and already owns his own car, pays for his own school books, and part of his tuition.

                Our younger daughter is on the same track - she's a miser when she's got a goal.

                Our adopted daughter came to us with an allowance from the foster care system. $20 a week and $100 a month clothing allowance. She can't save a dime to save her life. Once we adopted her we were no longer obligated to provide it to her - so we use that for school expenses, etc and but some back for eventual college expenses that she's unaware of.

                Our other kids have college funds too, so we try to match them all now. Our son is in community college right now, so he's not touching that yet.

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                  #23
                  Re: Allowances

                  *raises hand. Can I be real?
                  No allowance. Too poor. Anyone else?
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #24
                    Re: Allowances

                    My parents only gave me money because both my older sister refused to do any Chores. So I was doing everything that the three of us should have been sharing most of the time. (Cleaning the Kitchen and bathrooms, cooking at least twice a week, mowing the lawn, feeding the pets, hanging out the laundry, putting the dishes in the dishwasher and putting them away when they were finished, washing the dogs, walking the dogs.) But my parents restricted what I could spend it on. I was allowed 2 PC games a year and that was it, but I was matched dollar for dollar on books I bought. I still collect way too many books. I think channeling what they can spend it on is wise. but unless they go above and beyond academically then no exceptions should be made.

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                      #25
                      Re: Allowances

                      Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                      *raises hand. Can I be real?
                      No allowance. Too poor. Anyone else?
                      Not under my parent's rule, but I had a number of years in early adulthood where I couldn't give myself an allowance - it was just work/home. No movies, new clothes, extra driving, restaurants, etc.
                      sigpic
                      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                        #26
                        Re: Allowances

                        Handing a child money just because they are your child breeds the expectation of handouts. Real life sucks - you have to work for what you get. You have things that you have to spend that money on before you get to buy the things you want. Then you have savings that you need for when things break, and after all the necessities are taken care of you get to spend what remains on the things you want.

                        This is why I own my home and property, I have to debt, and I can live comfortably doing the things I enjoy. I didn't get an allowance. I had to work for my money and it means something.
                        The Dragon sees infinity and those it touches are forced to feel the reality of it.
                        I am his student and his partner. He is my guide and an ominous friend.

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                          #27
                          Re: Allowances

                          My tribe works in concert. We share, and take care of each other.
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                            #28
                            Re: Allowances

                            Originally posted by DragonsFriend View Post
                            Handing a child money just because they are your child breeds the expectation of handouts. Real life sucks - you have to work for what you get. You have things that you have to spend that money on before you get to buy the things you want. Then you have savings that you need for when things break, and after all the necessities are taken care of you get to spend what remains on the things you want.

                            This is why I own my home and property, I have to debt, and I can live comfortably doing the things I enjoy. I didn't get an allowance. I had to work for my money and it means something.
                            I don't own my home & have no debt because of the 50 cents a week candy money my parents gave me. I don't think it made any difference as far as that's concerned. I guess every case is different. There are plenty of jobs where people make "iron wages" - and I got myself stuck there for a while, decades ago. The ex made it worse. No more of any of those factors!
                            sigpic
                            Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                              #29
                              Re: Allowances

                              ^^^^ Sorry if that sounded confusing. I mean, I DO own my home etc. now, but it is NOT because of the allowance. I don't think in sentences and it's sometimes hard to write in them. Sorry.
                              sigpic
                              Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                                #30
                                Re: Allowances

                                I don't see harm in them being given allowance in exchange for some chores when they're too young to get a job. They're simple and mundane (the chores, that is) and teaches them that you can't get something for nothing. As they get older, they will have to do chores whether they like it or not as well as the job which earns them pocket money.

                                Personally I see no problem in financially helping your children at every opportunity, as long as they understand it is a favour and they are not entitled to it. I could stop at any moment, for any reason (makes me sound like an addict). As someone who deals primarily with familial ties, I believe the purpose in life is to give your genetic offspring the best chance, but that doesn't necessarily mean throwing money at them. It's a hard world, and they need to understand that there will always be those less fortunate than them and should help them where possible, but I will give my kids the best chance I can because life is hard and I don't owe it to anyone to deprive my kids for their kids' benefit. If my kids need help getting on the property ladder and I have the means to provide a deposit, you can bet I will lend it to them. Lend ​being the operative word here.
                                I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                                Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                                But that day you know I left my money
                                And I thought of you only
                                All that copper glowing fine

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