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Can one fail as human being?

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    #16
    Re: Can one fail as human being?

    Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    How is Chump consider the greatest human being of all the bad stuff he did?
    He is considered to be real good by some people, it just depends who you ask. The "bad" stuff he did... Is it globally bad? I'm pretty sure his actions were good to a few. See where I'm getting to?

    This thread hasn't changed, it wasn't about Trump, never was. I just followed your example because it seemed easier for me to explain my point of view to you.

    Originally posted by Medusa View Post
    Technically we are just sorta here to live. Technically we all eventually fail. It's all the stuff in the middle that's completely subjective to each individual's definition of what is the opposite of failure is.

    I will personally not have a living descendant from me when I die. I will have all my possessions junked. I will only live in a few people's memories, though I tend to outlive and outlast everyone I know. Is that a failure? Nope. I'm having a blast!
    Satan knows I'm having a blast, too!
    Last edited by Sean R. R.; 04 Aug 2019, 18:36.

    Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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      #17
      Re: Can one fail as human being?

      Originally posted by Sean R. R. View Post
      He is considered to be real good by some people, it just depends who you ask. The "bad" stuff he did... Is it globally bad? I'm pretty sure his actions were good to a few. See where I'm getting to?

      This thread hasn't changed, it wasn't about Trump, never was. I just followed your example because it seemed easier for me to explain my point of view to you.



      Satan knows I'm having a blast, too!
      Have you even watch the World News? Chump did so many bad stuff. Obviously you been living under a rock or you're just too blind to see that. I'm through wasting my time debating with you because I obviously know what I'm talking about.
      Last edited by Bartmanhomer; 04 Aug 2019, 18:46.

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        #18
        Re: Can one fail as human being?

        Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
        Have you even watch the World News? Chump did so many bad stuff. Obviously you been living under a rock or you're just too blind to see that. I'm through wasting my time debating with you because I obviously know what I'm talking about.
        I know you are upset. Hell, we all are. But there is more than one person to blame for this mess we are in. And insulting a forum member isn't going to help you. Maybe you need a time out. Go get a drink of something sweet. A snack perhaps.
        Satan is my spirit animal

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          #19
          Re: Can one fail as human being?

          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
          I know you are upset. Hell, we all are. But there is more than one person to blame for this mess we are in. And insulting a forum member isn't going to help you. Maybe you need a time out. Go get a drink of something sweet. A snack perhaps.
          My apologies everyone. But do try to understand where I coming from. But Sean comments really push my buttons. I still stand by what I said and my opinion about Chump won't change at all.

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            #20
            Re: Can one fail as human being?

            Originally posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
            My apologies everyone. But do try to understand where I coming from. But Sean comments really push my buttons. I still stand by what I said and my opinion about Chump won't change at all.
            Sean isn't trying to defend Trump. He's trying to make you look at something from more than one perspective. If he's pushing your buttons then it's because you aren't actually reading his post correctly. Calm down and look at what he's actually saying instead of flying off the handle.
            life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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              #21
              Re: Can one fail as human being?

              Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
              Sean isn't trying to defend Trump. He's trying to make you look at something from more than one perspective. If he's pushing your buttons then it's because you aren't actually reading his post correctly. Calm down and look at what he's actually saying instead of flying off the handle.
              Ok I'll reread his post and try again. :smile:

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                #22
                Re: Can one fail as human being?

                Can an elephant fail at being an elephant? Can a cat fail at being a cat? Even if your cat acts a little different than other cats, he's still a cat. I don't think any animal (or other living organism) can fail at 'being'. So humans can't either. You are being a human and that's all there is to life. You can't fail at that.

                Of course that has nothing to do with annoying traits. I'm with Sean on this that it's subjective. We have a wannebe-Trump in the Netherlands (Geert Wilders) who I find very annoying and wrong at many topics, yet he has a large group of followers.

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                  #23
                  Re: Can one fail as human being?

                  Originally posted by Eleanor View Post
                  Can an elephant fail at being an elephant?...
                  If the distinguishing characteristic of the class "elephant" is "the ability to manipulate objects with its nose," then one could truthfully say that an elephant with a paralyzed nose has failed (in at least one way) at being an elephant.

                  It is still an elephant, though, in the same way that a car that doesn't run is still a car.

                  To say that a thing has "failed" does not require that it ceases being a member of it's class, nor does it require that the thing fails at some percieved "purpose." All that is required is that the speaker has a metric, and that the observed object falls below the metric.

                  A bad essay (for example) is still an essay, it just fails to meet the metric.

                  Now, one could argue that the particular metric being used is invalid for one reason or another, but that's a whole other bucket of chum.
                  Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                    #24
                    Re: Can one fail as human being?

                    Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                    Now, one could argue that the particular metric being used is invalid for one reason or another, but that's a whole other bucket of chum.
                    Maybe not necessarily invalid, but just arbitrary?

                    Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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                      #25
                      Re: Can one fail as human being?

                      Originally posted by Sean R. R. View Post
                      Maybe not necessarily invalid, but just arbitrary?
                      Not arbitrary, necessarily, but certainly subjective. All value judgements are subjective - but this does not make them useless. Decisions have to be made, decisions are made using a combination of objective evidence and subjective value judgements (well, classicly. Now-a-days it appears that evidence is optional).
                      Last edited by B. de Corbin; 05 Aug 2019, 07:26.
                      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                        #26
                        Last edited by Rhythm; 05 Aug 2019, 16:39.

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                          #27
                          Re: Can one fail as human being?

                          Can you give me an example of a value judgement that is not subjectively based?
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                            #28
                            Re: Can one fail as human being?

                            Not likely, no, given that you view all value judgement as subjective.

                            Its one of those differences that are generally intractable, but very often built out of a misconception as to what value theorists (and ethical theories) are referring to with the terms objective and subjective. Realist and other-than.

                            Broadly and simply, the difference between the two positions is what a purported fact properly refers to. If it properly refers to a fact of the object, and does accurately report the contents of the purported fact, it’s a realist value statement. Allegedly objective. If it properly refers to some fact about the reporter..the subject, alone, subjectivist.

                            With that in mind, you can probably work out how to distribute assertions between the two alleged sets. I noticed comments in your statement that allowed for this directly following the assertion that all value judgement was subjective. What you were referring to with those are what realists are referring to with objectivity.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            I’d also add, here, that success and failure are metaphysically neutral. We can succeed or fail by reference to criteria in either category. The answer to the question of whether or not we can fail as humans is a resounding yes either way. Whether or not those failures matter to us, generally...or in some specific case, another question entirely...but some of the same comments cross over.
                            Last edited by Rhythm; 06 Aug 2019, 04:27.

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                              #29
                              Re: Can one fail as human being?

                              Originally posted by Rhythm View Post
                              - - - Updated - - -
                              Thank you for that. It is interesting - I went on a "realism" quick read internet trip.

                              I don't think I can agree with the idea of objective morality (my own inclination leans toward sollipsistic existentialism where "good" means "good for an individual or group" and "bad" means "bad for an individual or group") although I do understand why the idea is attractive...

                              ... However, I need to read more...
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                                #30
                                Last edited by Rhythm; 06 Aug 2019, 05:46.

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