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    Re: Coming out of the broom closet?

    Well, maybe you could start there...with talking about what she believes. You are 13, you have a while to go before you can move out if she disapproves, so you might as well start your dialogue by research for trying to figure out your strategy. While you are at it, drop some hints that you are interested in finding out more about other religions in general. Ask her about her opinions--how she feels about other religions may give you some additional insight too.

    What I did for quite some time, was to make a point to be seen with books about other religions. We had an established "anything is fair game for reading" rule in my home. So, my first pagan books were Drawing Down the Moon and Spiral Dance...got them from the library and totally read them right in front of my parents as "research". They didn't bat an eye (though they asked a few questions). And, IMO, religious literacy in other world religions is crazy useful as a Pagan. It helped that my parents were pretty open minded about religion. Also, I used the language of Unitarian Universalism when talking about religion in general--that the wisdom and inspiration of spirituality was bigger than just the Bible, that what is divine (what is "god") is a bigger idea than any one religion*, etc.

    TBH, I sort of agree with your mom...at least from my own experience and observation. When I was your age, I had already started with Wicca and moved on from it by the time I was 20. I'm still Pagan...but sometimes I joke that Wicca is "the gateway Paganism"--most people find it first and either move on in Paganism, move on to something outside of Paganism, or go back to where they came...but some of them do stay in Wicca (I'd say its maybe about half and half whether they go for a lineaged, coven path or stay eclectic and solitary without moving towards something else). I'm not saying you won't remain Wiccan, but there's tons you can do in terms of practices and looking at other related beliefs, just to be more widely educated in Paganism.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      Re: Coming out of the Broom Closet

      I'm actually not "out". Back in my 20s, when I was Wiccan, so was my mother. It made it much easier on me to be open. But during a time of not really practicing anything my entire family converted to fundamentalist Christianity. I went along for the ride, because it was easier than being the "black sheep". But now that I'm coming out of that everyone else is still fully immersed in it. I cannot be open, because it will most assuredly lead to many tearful prayers for my eternal soul, disappointment, worrying that I'll "die in my sins", etc. It sucks.

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        That Went Worse then Expected

        Holy title typo, Batman! I meant "than" and it auto-corrected to "then". I tried to tip-toe out of the proverbial broom closet to my mom today. Back when I was studying Wicca she was as well, so we had that in common. Now she's a fundamentalist Christian, and I pretended to be for years until it became smothering and I couldn't fake it any longer. We left a Baptist church and I've been attending a Bible study my dad's been leading, for the sake of family unity (and to keep from blowing my cover with the less than tolerant people I am surrounded by). I felt safe broaching the subject with my mom. All I had to get out was, "I don't necessarily believe the Bible is the literal, infallible, inerrant word of God" and she was most unhappy.

        I was told that it's obvious how "far I've gone downhill" since we left the Baptist church. That obviously I'm "searching online for my path instead of having faith in God". That I "always have to go the direct opposite and pull away from the family just to be oppositional". That I either "believe the Bible" or I'm "an atheist", because you "can't believe in God but not his Bible". That I'm "so arrogant that I think I have to question God about everything". That I'll probably "brainwash" my husband out of having faith. But then she said the words that absolutely crushed me. "I'm so disappointed in you". I had hoped that she would at least be supportive. I didn't expect her to jump up and down with glee and renounce her Christian faith, but I had hoped she would say, "Sweetie, if it makes you feel complete and whole and happy, then I'm happy for you. It's okay for us to have different beliefs". But of course, because she's turned into such a fundie, she's convinced I'm lost and doomed to hell and wandered from "the one true way". That somehow this is my way of attacking the family.

        I guess I have to conceal the rest of my beliefs, because it's glaringly apparent I can't even be honest about my general synopsis of the Bible without just absolutely destroying her perception of me. Distancing myself in not possible, since I live with my family, so I just have to hide and suck it up.

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          Re: That Went Worse then Expected

          I am a bit surprised that you ran into this at your age,BUT having had to deal with "True believers" like my mother(now gone,died at 92) I do understand your issues .

          I am imagining that you are in some way dependent still on family,and all I can say is quote "To yourself be true"

          What you describe is an attempt to make you feel guilt that is not yours to bear,I know this type of an attempt because my own Mother pulled that a lot on me.

          I do hope things improve for you,but it might be a good thing to get your own place if at all possible.

          One other thing my Mother did was kinda say if I was not saved,then god would punish her. Yeh that's a cold one,but my sister in law did even better with her gay daughter saying she got cancer because her daughter was gay..
          MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

          all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
          NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
          don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




          sigpic

          my new page here,let me know what you think.


          nothing but the shadow of what was

          witchvox
          http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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            Re: That Went Worse then Expected

            Originally posted by anunitu View Post
            I am imagining that you are in some way dependent still on family,and all I can say is quote "To yourself be true"

            What you describe is an attempt to make you feel guilt that is not yours to bear, I know this type of an attempt because my own Mother pulled that a lot on me.
            This.

            If anyone here should be expressing their disappointment in their family members, it should be you.
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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              Re: That Went Worse then Expected

              Honestly, if I had to make an assumption as to what her deal is I'd say my lack of faith in her brand of religion is like holding up a big mirror and it makes her insecure. She's always wavered in her beliefs and gone back and forth with the finer doctrinal points of Christianity. I think she's terrified that if I'm not right alongside her, lock-step in the same beliefs, then she will begin questioning her own. She'd never admit this, but I think that's a big problem. It's that lack of validation, which is what I think causes a lot of evangelical Christians to lash out and demand laws be made reflecting their theology. They need that stamp of approval and agreement from others in order to bolster their own faith. The most secure Christians I've ever known never needed to foist their beliefs on others and were happy in the company of a diverse range of people.

              Moving out, at this point, is not an option. I'm not in any danger of being disowned or kicked out, but it does mean I can't be as open as I would be otherwise. And I suppose that's okay. Living in the Bible Belt it was never as if I could ever totally be "out" in society. I had to keep it quiet at my job. Wearing a pentacle outside of my shirt invited cries of "devil worshiper!" from strangers at the grocery store. Mocking questions from waiters at restaurants, etc. I guess my biggest pain comes from her judgment. I wish she had just said, "Honey, if you wanted to become a Swami I'd respect your choice so long as it makes you a better, happier person". But she's bought into the myth that the only way to true peace, happiness, and self-improvement is through faith in Christian theology.

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                Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                Yes,been there done that,and I am at 68,still bothered sometimes by my mothers voice saying,why are you not a christian even though she never listened when I explained why.

                Hang in there,just furnish the closet nicely.
                MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                sigpic

                my new page here,let me know what you think.


                nothing but the shadow of what was

                witchvox
                http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                Comment


                  Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                  Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                  This.

                  If anyone here should be expressing their disappointment in their family members, it should be you.
                  Oh, it's there, believe me. Some relatives I'm not at all worried about, because they are the way they've were raised and there's no argument convincing enough. I mean, for Pete's sake, my own aunt un-friended me on FB after I posted a pic of my new labret piercing. She left the comment, "piercings and tattoos are ugly, and I hate them!" and then un-friended me. So I have no hope of ever being able to even come close to coming out to them. But mine and my mom's relationship has always been very open and close. I'm not used to not being able to tell her things.

                  Originally posted by anunitu View Post

                  Hang in there,just furnish the closet nicely.
                  Thanks so much for the sage advice and comforting words. I have cookies, big throw pillows, and a Lava lamp, so all is good LOL

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                    Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                    Wow, that must have been tough to go through. Unfortunately, sometimes relaying non-Christian beliefs to family members doesn't go as well as we hope it will. But maybe she'll come around one day and you'll be able to open up the dialogue again.

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                      Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                      I know how you feel. My dad and I had a sorta fight on Saturday. I told them I wouldn't be watching tv church with them and he asked why. I told him that it was because I was not Catholic anymore. He said he had failed as a parent because I wasn't Catholic anymore. Let's just say I got pissed off and walked away to my room and slammed the door shut. He apologized later, but still there is a divide. He doesn't understand that this is me. I'm sorry hon.
                      Anubisa

                      Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

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                        Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                        Originally posted by anubisa View Post
                        I know how you feel. My dad and I had a sorta fight on Saturday. I told them I wouldn't be watching tv church with them and he asked why. I told him that it was because I was not Catholic anymore. He said he had failed as a parent because I wasn't Catholic anymore. Let's just say I got pissed off and walked away to my room and slammed the door shut. He apologized later, but still there is a divide. He doesn't understand that this is me. I'm sorry hon.
                        *hugs* I'm sorry for what you experienced as well. My most sincere hope is that my mom is just feeling rattled in her own beliefs, and that's why she lashed out the way she did. Not that I hope she's shaky in her faith, but because I think I could cope with that a lot more than her believing I'm some hellbound sinner.

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                          Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                          I'm sorry you're going through this; emotions should never be used as a method of manipulation. My mother used to be in a similar state; she wasn't fundamentalist but she was convinced that I was "doing it for attention", that it was "her house and her rules", etc etc and even went so far as to physically try and destroy a shrine ( dedicated to the element and spirits of Water and she was ripping stuff off and trying to put it in the trash) that I had made in my room and that led to a colossal fight.

                          My mother is very smart but also very stubborn and emotionally vengeful and its very difficult to get her to admit when she's wrong/ when somebody knows something better than her especially if that person is younger than her. I suspect that she tried to get into Paganism or something similar and had a bad experience with it so now she's extremely wary of it. She always dodges the question or snaps at me.

                          I'm also trying to find a place of my own because I just can't deal with her stubborn attitude and grudge-holding and constant use of guilt-tripping. I hope that things get better.

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                            Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                            My parents and I have devolved into a pseudo don't ask don't tell policy , they subtly try to maintain a christian vibes though, We basically don't talk about religion at all I'm pretty much an Atheist they go to church on Sunday I don't nobody says anything. I also never really felt I could talk to my parents about anything else besides religion we just don't connect I mean we hardly fight, but at the same time we just live in two different worlds. That led me to have to figure out things on my own I didn't have any supporting friends either all my friends are idiots , basically I learned if I wanted to better myself or get somewhere in life it was up to me to make good decisions for myself and this led me on my somewhat selfish path that I identified with the "Sith" from starwars obviously influenced from Taoist and Buddhist that George Lucas incorporated into a more modern philosophy.

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                              Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                              I just wanted to pop in here with an update. It's funny how things can, and sometimes do, change so fast. I got a chance to talk with my mom today and I won't go into specifics, but it was very healing and positive. She apologized for her reaction, and explained it to me. Come to find out she's been struggling with coming to terms with her own faith as of late. I still have to be careful with my dad, because he's hardline Christian, but at least I have an ally in my mom.

                              Comment


                                Re: That Went Worse then Expected

                                Yeah. I don't know what to do with the parental issues either. I was talking n the phone to my Mum a few weeks ago. My brother and his girlfriend are Druids, and I'm a Faery, sometimes I just call myself a pagan. My mum decided to ask what all of this means. I tried to explain to her, and then she just started crying and crying her eyes out on the phone, and then hung up on me.

                                I live in Egypt and the UK, she lives back home in New Zealand. I haven't seen her for four years. I can't just pop around and make it better. I don't know what to do?

                                I guess she assumes we are all going to hell or something
                                Love, Starlight and Magical Wishes from Felicity Fairy
                                www.felicityfairyparties.co.uk

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